deep-stacked aces

[liquid]

Comments on each player's line? BigStack is an unknown LAG; BiggerStack is a well-known and sometimes maniacal LAG.

$100 PLO (9-handed)

Seat 5: BigStack (MP2, $364)
Seat 7: BiggerStack (CO, $572.85)

PRE-FLOP
B1 posts blind ($1), B2 posts blind ($1), UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, B1 calls $1, BigStack calls $1, BiggerStack bets $6, Button folds, B1 calls $5, B2 folds, MP1 folds, BigStack bets $25, BiggerStack calls $20, B1 calls $20.

(~$80) FLOP [4/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif]
B1 checks, BigStack bets $80, BiggerStack calls $80, B1 folds.

(~$240) TURN [4/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif]
BigStack bets $240, BiggerStack calls $240.

(~$720) RIVER [4/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif]
BigStack bets $18 and is all-in, BiggerStack calls $18.

SHOWDOWN
BigStack shows [T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif]
BiggerStack shows [8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
BiggerStack wins $754.

[liquid]

I'd be particularly interested in comments that put this hand in the context of BluffTHIS!'s recent post on LAGs (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Number=4133643).

[Acesover8s]

They both played it terribly. Big Stack should not reraise that hand preflop unless he's doing it with wide range.

Bigger stack should put in a raise on the flop since hes a favorite over bare aces anyway, but wouldn't really mind a pass.

On the turn, Big Stack should be terrified. Checking is terrible, betting not much better, which is why he shouldn't have got himself here in the first place. Bigger stack should now be kicking himself for not putting in his chips sooner, when his outs are looking grimmer and grimmer. Why save your last 18$? Are you going to fold it on the end if you miss?

[liquid]

[ QUOTE ]
Bigger stack should put in a raise on the flop since hes a favorite over bare aces anyway, but wouldn't really mind a pass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, BiggerStack's flop call puzzled me the most, especially given his usual line with similar draws.

The rest I can't even wrap my brain around enough to be puzzled. Is this more about psychology than strategery (http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushstrategery.htm)?

[bholdr]

very scary hand. you have a big 'ol monster, so it's hard not to re-pot PF... with 100BB stacks, it's an easy re-raise, but you're really deep; I'd want to A: keep the hand camoflauged, B: the pot under control (so you may still have enough implied odds to draw against a made hand on the flop) and C: so you can get busy post-flop with some check-raisin' if ya hit... that sounds W/T, but i think it's your best move here.

played the way you did... i check/call a 1/2 pot bet on the turn, fold to a full bet; Your aces are either beat already- two pair, set- barely ahead, or maybe even way behind a big draw (as was the case).

bottom line (this is a note to myself, too...) don't fall in love with aces out of position, esp when deep

[Tilt]

Big stack played this hand terribly. He played it like he was on a small stack.

I think BiggerStack should have raised the flop. There might be some FE there.

[LearnedfromTV]

Bigger stack should have raised the flop. The turn call is pretty bad, especially because the Q is a horrible card for him because some of the time bigstack should have a KJT9/KJ98/KQJT type hand (often w/ spades) that now steals some of biggerstacks outs. In biggerstacks mind, most of the time bigstack pots this turn it should be with a set, a wrap or at worst aces with some kind of backup like the spades. Bigstack should never have gotten to this large turn pot with unimproved aces, so biggerstack is really lucky that all his outs were clean.

This shows the danger of overplaying AA out of position. You get to the turn with a big pot and it seems like you have to fire the second barrel because the pot is so big.

That said, I actually like this turn bet from the AA once he sticks himself here, because the flop pot size was big enough for biggerstack to jam a set and the Q misses all the draws. AA is still ahead a pretty good percentage of the time and needs to get folds from hands with outs or get his value now from biggish draws, because there aren't really any safe river cards and there's no way for him to get his opponent to make a mistake on the river.

In general, as someone else pointed out, a lot of the dynamic in this hand depends on how certain biggerstack is that bigstack has AA.