NL 100 (6 max) - T9s

How would you guys play this hand?
Reads: Villain is 20/9 after 75. He seems like a beginner to the game. He has preflop down pretty good, but postflop he is pretty horrendous. His bet sizes are bad. He underbets alot. On C-bets, he was betting less than 1/2 pot alot, even when he had TPTK and there was a flush draw present. Also, him and other guy minraised each other 4 times on one street.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Hero ($146.80)
BB ($152.32)
UTG ($87.50)
MP ($177)
Button ($74.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $2</font>, Button calls $2, Hero (poster) calls $1.50, BB calls $1.

Flop: ($8) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $8</font>, BB calls $8, MP folds, Button folds.

Turn: ($26) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, BB calls $15.

River: ($56) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB calls $127.32 (All-In), Hero calls $121.80 (All-In).

Final Pot: $305.12

[beavens]

well i sure dont like the turn bet (make it 3/4-pot) and the river check unless you were 100% sure he'd take a stab at the pot.

lead river with a PSB.

fold preflop; i only play SC on the button for a raise. as played, flop check-raise is my standard play if i think button will cbet; turn I bet closer to $18 but that's a nitpick; river I block for $35 and fold to a push.

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fold preflop

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Really? I would never fold this here. Ya being out of position sucks, but I get a cheap look at the flop getting 4 to 1 assuming BB calls, which he will almost all the time.

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river I block for $35 and fold to a push.

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Why do you block river for 35? Why are you folding to a push? I think a set is unlikely. He would most likely bet the flop or raise the turn. With a set, do you really think he would show 0 agression until the river?
Aren't his most likely holdings a weak K, A /images/graemlins/club.gifX, or Q /images/graemlins/club.gifx

[tripp0807]

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fold preflop; i only play SC on the button for a raise.

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Pretty weak-tight, isn't it?

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lead river with a PSB.

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I don't like this, it's too hard to fold when he pushes with a boat.

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fold preflop; i only play SC on the button for a raise.

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Pretty weak-tight, isn't it?

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No. These hands play like [censored] without position.

[tripp0807]

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fold preflop; i only play SC on the button for a raise.

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Pretty weak-tight, isn't it?

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No. These hands play like [censored] without position.

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/images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/confused.gif

EDIT: Ignore. I'm still in donkey mode. I thought OP was on button.

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river I block for $35 and fold to a push.

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Why do you block river for 35? Why are you folding to a push? I think a set is unlikely. He would most likely bet the flop or raise the turn. With a set, do you really think he would show 0 agression until the river?
Aren't his most likely holdings a weak K, A /images/graemlins/club.gifX, or Q /images/graemlins/club.gifx

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You think villain pushes without a boat, if Hero leads the river? Lots of donks will call down with a set if you're leading into them, and raise the river.

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well i sure dont like the turn bet(make it 3/4-pot)

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Good advice. I'm giving 2.73 to 1 on a 4 to 1 shot, but he's probably not folding for 5 bucks more. Also, the bigger bet may increase the chance he attempts to buy the river with a busted flush draw when checked to.
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I don't like the river check unless you were 100% sure he'd take a stab at the pot. Lead river with a PSB.

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Do I really have to be 100% sure? I only see a weak K, or the A or Q high flush draw in his range. I think I'm giving the K a chance to fold, and the flush draws are definitely folding for a pot sized bet. Are you hoping he had a hand with a 3 in it?

Ya, you're right. Villain doesn't push without a boat if hero leads river. I disagreed with his advice if taken in two parts. I didn't like the block bet, and I didn't like folding to a push. But I think I have to fold if I lead and he pushes.

[dbitel]

Bdaws, you seem to be very confident that the villian was bluffing on this river....how come? If the player seemed to be better then a beginner, are you still calling on the river?

Also, baring in mind that this is a beginner, I might well pot the turn. Beginners find it near to impossible to fold their flush draws, so why not get your money in with the best of it.

[aces_dad]

Did you check the river to induce a bluff from a busted flush draw?

[ajmargarine]

Hate the flop checkraise. Why don't you just tell him in chat that you have a flush? Leading to "protect your King" is much better. They won't believe you have a flush anyways more times than not, as if they flopped one they would certainly slowplay and c/r and do everything but just simply lead with it. And that's why they don't believe that you have one.

I would lead pot the flop and pot the turn for starters. Why check/raise flop here? Why bet so weak on turn?

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Bdaws, you seem to be very confident that the villian was bluffing on this river....how come?

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His line seems very inconsistent with a set or two pair. I thought it was highly unlikely that he boated up on the river. A gross overbet like that was just trying to buy the pot. Think Moneymaker vs. Farha when he misses his flush.

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Also, baring in mind that this is a beginner, I might well pot the turn. Beginners find it near to impossible to fold their flush draws, so why not get your money in with the best of it.

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Yes, this has been mentioned above. At the time, I thought he either had a weak K or a flush draw. I thought this amount would allow the K to stick around, and it still gave the flush draw incorrect odds.

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Did you check the river to induce a bluff from a busted flush draw?

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Yes, after he called the turn, I was fairly certain he had a flush draw. Checking to induce a bluff seemed like the right play at the time.

to dustbustr - cmon man. don't fold this preflop with the action leading up to you. this is a great suited connector situation.

to bdaws - the flop checkraise is debateable, and I prefer a lead here so you can threebet, but I don't think its terrible to cr. the turn HAS to be more expensive. he calls the flop, so make him pay huge on the turn. again, not terribly critical to the hand.

the real thing in the hand that surprised me was the river check. i was pretty shocked by that. why? at least a blocking bet, maybe a medium sized bet - you're BEGGING to get overbet here. and the call is tough, real tough, but go with your read i guess. shrug.

[aces_dad]

Well if that's your plan based upon your read then you're correct to call the river push.

His pf numbers plus the read you provided suggests he may also be weak-tight post flop (many small post flop bets), in which case I'd prefer to block the river and fold to the overbet.

I do agree most people would be more agressive with a flopped set but it's not unreasonable to see a weak-tight player play like this.

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Hate the flop checkraise. Why don't you just tell him in chat that you have a flush? Leading to "protect your King" is much better. They won't believe you have a flush anyways more times than not, as if they flopped one they would certainly slowplay and c/r and do everything but just simply lead with it. And that's why they don't believe that you have one.

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I think leading the flop is an option. But I didn't want to give higher flush draws a good price to draw. I would just hate to lead and get called in 3 places by someone with a K, and 2 other higher flush draws. I would rather check, let someone protect their made hand or semibluff their higher draw, then make a pot raise and force my opponents to commit alot of chips to continue.
I think your suggested line would probably work better against thinking, competent opponents. Although this checkraise would make it apparent to most players on this forum that I have a flush, there are plenty of players at NL 100 that will still hold onto K /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and other hands drawing slim. I wanted to build the pot fast and as a result, I ignored deception.

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fold preflop

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Really? I would never fold this here. Ya being out of position sucks, but I get a cheap look at the flop getting 4 to 1 assuming BB calls, which he will almost all the time.

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river I block for $35 and fold to a push.

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Why do you block river for 35? Why are you folding to a push? I think a set is unlikely. He would most likely bet the flop or raise the turn. With a set, do you really think he would show 0 agression until the river?
Aren't his most likely holdings a weak K, A /images/graemlins/club.gifX, or Q /images/graemlins/club.gifx

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Often new players won't get very aggressive unless they have the nuts. If he flopped the set, he was probably sweating the flush to the point of passivity.

His betting is consistant w/ pocket sixes.

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don't fold this preflop with the action leading up to you. this is a great suited connector situation.

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Can I have some more opinions on preflop? Am I missing opportunities by folding preflop? MP raised 4xBB, B called, I'm OOP with a drawing hand facing a raise, I believe that is an automuck. Thoughts?

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to bdaws - the flop checkraise is debateable, and I prefer a lead here so you can threebet, but I don't think its terrible to cr.

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I didn't think I would get the chance to 3 bet. It was a minraised pot preflop, so its not like anyone feels it is their pot. I thought it was highly unlikely I would get the chance to 3 bet, I thought I would probably get to check raise. I wanted to build the pot as fast as possible, so I chose to check raise.

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the turn HAS to be more expensive. he calls the flop, so make him pay huge on the turn. again, not terribly critical to the hand.

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Yes, this is mentioned elsewhere in the thread. At the time, I put him on a weak K or higher draw. I tried to bet enough to allow the K to call and also give improper odds to the flush draw. There is no way I am paying him off if another club falls, so if he calls with a flush draw, he is making a mistake and I profit.

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the real thing in the hand that surprised me was the river check. i was pretty shocked by that. why? at least a blocking bet, maybe a medium sized bet - you're BEGGING to get overbet here.

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I read busted flush, or in very rare cases, a K. If he has a flush draw, I'm only making money if he bluffs. If he has a K, him calling my bet is the same as him possibly value betting. I thought the flush draw was much more likely also.

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and the call is tough, real tough, but go with your read i guess. shrug.

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I instacalled. There is no way he plays a set like this. I haven't really shown that much strength so he would valuebet and attempt to get paid off. The thing that lead me to believe most convincingly he didnt have a set was that he didn't lead the flop. Why would he not lead the flop with a set?

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Can I have some more opinions on preflop? Am I missing opportunities by folding preflop? MP raised 4xBB, B called, I'm OOP with a drawing hand facing a raise, I believe that is an automuck. Thoughts?

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MP min raised, 2xBB. If it was 4xBB, I would fold.