kevkev60614
12-22-2005, 12:31 PM
I've been thinking more about the c/c flop, lead turn line. I know this line isn't used that much in SnGs cuz of the shorter stacks, but the underlying reason to use it is controlling pot size, something I don't know anything about and isn't talked about enough here, I feel.
In another thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=4247485 &fpart=&PHPSESSID=) 11t says
[ QUOTE ]
c/r is too expensive and c/c lead the turn lets you get off cheap cus people either have the goods or big balls to push over a turn 2/3 pot bet.
[/ QUOTE ]
And Scuba Chuck says
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My assumption is that this keeps the pot smaller for taking impetus on a safe turn card (like the one that happened), if we decide to do so. If the turn is a club or an over, we can easily release. The way I played it, with the c/r, if villain calls, and the turn is a club or an ace (or any over), we're up sh*t creek.
[/ QUOTE ]
So I have two questions:
1) It seems to me that when you c/c, lead turn rather than c/r flop, you lose a little FE but the hand is much easier to play because if your flop c/r is called you have no idea whether to lead turn or not with a marginal holding. Also, c/c, lead turn gets you a cheaper showdown. Are these the two big reasons for the line?
2) When a villain c/c, leads turn against me at the $11s, I assume his turn lead very often means that the turn card hit him. Is it often that he is trying to get a cheap showdown with a marginal holding, or is this unlikely for the $11 donks and more likely for higher buy-in players?
Thanks in advance. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
In another thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=4247485 &fpart=&PHPSESSID=) 11t says
[ QUOTE ]
c/r is too expensive and c/c lead the turn lets you get off cheap cus people either have the goods or big balls to push over a turn 2/3 pot bet.
[/ QUOTE ]
And Scuba Chuck says
[ QUOTE ]
My assumption is that this keeps the pot smaller for taking impetus on a safe turn card (like the one that happened), if we decide to do so. If the turn is a club or an over, we can easily release. The way I played it, with the c/r, if villain calls, and the turn is a club or an ace (or any over), we're up sh*t creek.
[/ QUOTE ]
So I have two questions:
1) It seems to me that when you c/c, lead turn rather than c/r flop, you lose a little FE but the hand is much easier to play because if your flop c/r is called you have no idea whether to lead turn or not with a marginal holding. Also, c/c, lead turn gets you a cheaper showdown. Are these the two big reasons for the line?
2) When a villain c/c, leads turn against me at the $11s, I assume his turn lead very often means that the turn card hit him. Is it often that he is trying to get a cheap showdown with a marginal holding, or is this unlikely for the $11 donks and more likely for higher buy-in players?
Thanks in advance. /images/graemlins/grin.gif