More curtains in the blinds

[wuwei]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t555)
MP1 (t1010)
MP2 (t905)
CO (t2455)
Button (t1960)
Hero (t725)
BB (t2390)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t150) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks.

Turn: (t150) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t75</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t150</font>, MP1 folds, Hero calls t75

Good call? River plan?

[jeffraider]

Fold preflop is what I think. I've got no clue how to play this river though.

[pokerlaw]

i would tend to check most of the rivers that fall (everything but a Q or T prob). the small reraises are suspect sometimes, especially when the raiser has me outchipped by a lot.

i think checking on the river leads to the BB shoving a lot of the time, but I think i fold to that b/c I'm dont think I am ahead here (of course w a read that BB is loose the whole equation changes).

[Scuba Chuck]

With a 725 chip stack before posting, I fold preflop here.

Fold preflop. And I think a check-fold on an unimproved river is in order too. I'll be interested to see how curtains played it.

[Degen]

surely there is a read there, and if the read was that his oppponent has less than a queen with ten kicker, this i think its a fine call...the river plan will be fully dependant on his read

edit: fold pf?? from the SB with suited paint? yuck...

[jeffraider]

[ QUOTE ]

edit: fold pf?? from the SB with suited paint? yuck...

[/ QUOTE ]

He's got 725 and will be OOP. Folding PF definitely isn't bad here, calling is a stretch but maybe curtains can make it profitably.

[curtains]

Ok folding preflop is beyond ridiculous, Im sorry to say. Also there were some reads involved in this hand. The limper is a terrible player if I recall and the BB is one of the better $215ers it seems. There are less than 5 $215ers who seem to actually play well in all phases of the game, and I'd say that this guy is probably one of them, althoguh I havent played with them enough yet to be completely sure. I'd rather the OP not mention who they are though.

Anyway I didn't play this hand well at all IMO. Calling the turn is a bit dumb, there is zero chance Im ahead, and its not as though all my outs are clean. Moving allin on the turn is possible after the min raise, but only because my opponent won't call without a very strong hand. In any case folding is probably best. I mainly bet out the turn because I knew the BB would fold if they had nothing, and that it seemed the weak limper had nothing as well. Im really not sure why I decided to call the min raise, although it was actually good that I did because it gave me some information that I may be able to use in the future and honestly I have to say I was curious.

In any case any info that I have gained for the future won't be so valuable if the villian reads this thread /images/graemlins/smile.gif So please OP, don't list the screenname.

[jeffraider]

I disagree. What's the worst hand you call in this spot?

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

edit: fold pf?? from the SB with suited paint? yuck...

[/ QUOTE ]

He's got 725 and will be OOP. Folding PF definitely isn't bad here, calling is a stretch but maybe curtains can make it profitably.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling is a stretch??? Oh man, folding this PF is just so bad. It's like ripping up money.

[jeffraider]

Why? Your hand can get you in trouble (like it did) and you're out of position to both a bad player and a good player. Is it like ripping up money because you can play so well postflop, or do you think that just getting 5:1 on this hand is enough? Would you make this call with this stack in an 800-chipper against unknowns?

[curtains]

I would never dream of folding this for half a bet. Too many good things can happen. Sometimes bad things will too, but I mean if the flop comes queen or ten high I have a premium hand in this situation, in which I can be confident putting all my chips in. This combined with the many possible draws and other good scenarios make this an easy call. I need to earn some chips somehow...folding with QTs against a weak limper getting 5-1 pot odds is not the best way to do that.

It's hard to really explain, I just know that you can't play this tight. btw I would have called if it was offsuit. The 150 chips in the pot are important and I need to fight for them. Again there are many top pair flops that are good for me that will earn me a 150 chip pot, or even more if I decide to check raise. Sometimes it wont work out, but you can't wait around for a stone cold lock when you have just 15x the BB.

[jeffraider]

Does the presence of a good player in the BB have any bearing on you entering this pot? Also, what's the weakest hand you're completing here?

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
Why? Your hand can get you in trouble (like it did) and you're out of position to both a bad player and a good player. Is it like ripping up money because you can play so well postflop, or do you think that just getting 5:1 on this hand is enough? Would you make this call with this stack in an 800-chipper against unknowns?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure curtains has enough confidence in his ability to not get trapped to make this a profitable call. I'd probably call this in an 800 chipper as well. And not that it was likely in curtains thought process at the time, but there's something to be said for learning to play sub-premium hands in order to learn to play more difficult situations post-flop. It'll put some hair on your chest.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Does the presence of a good player in the BB have any bearing on you entering this pot? Also, what's the weakest hand you're completing here?

[/ QUOTE ]


The good player is irrelevant, he has random hand in the BB. Also good players are good to play against in some situations, because they are USUALLY easy to read postflop early in sit and gos. For instance the guy isnt going to bluff me out psotflop from the BB for no reason. This doesn't make him a bad player though. The times when such players really become annoying are when it really counts, which is on the bubble/5 handed when the blinds are getting high.

In any case Im not sure quite how good they are. I just know they have good PP stats and I don't recall them ever doing something that is completely stupid. Also its importnat that they are capable of making tough +EV calls, which Ive seen them do before. A lot of the tight nonstop multitablers will basically let you abuse their blinds nonstop and don't ever adjust against you or even pay attention to whom their opponent is. There are some guys where if I was SB vs BB against them in the 15-30 round, I could raise their blind every sit and go from now for 3 months from now, and they would just play completely normally from the BB, assuming it was just some standard raise. Meaning they would fold almost all hands.

[45suited]

Why is it so hard to believe, that for 1/28th of his stack, the SB would call getting 5:1 odds with a decent hand here?

[jeffraider]

Okay boys I'm sold. Thanks for the info! Sometimes I take being a position nazi too far, I think.

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
Does the presence of a good player in the BB have any bearing on you entering this pot? Also, what's the weakest hand you're completing here?

[/ QUOTE ]

QTs vs a donkey is a pretty strong hand...

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
There are some guys where if I was SB vs BB against them in the 15-30 round, I could raise their blind every sit and go from now for 3 months from now, and they would just play completely normally from the BB, assuming it was just some standard raise. Meaning they would fold almost all hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

lol Curtains don't you think that giving away hundreds of HH's and saying things like this to these players (as they likely post or lurk here) may have a negative impact on your expectation in the future?

[curtains]

Nah...I like to play against people who think they know what Im thinking. I'm aware of everything I say and generally aware that some players may be reading it.

Anyway these guys who fold all the time dont care, they love to give away their 15 - 30 chip blind and probably laugh at the idea that anyone would care enough to go out of their way to steal it. They have a supertight style that they don't like to deviate from no matter what. If they start doing stuff like reraising with mediocre values and playing hands they aren't used to playing because of something they read, it should make them uncomfortable, which is usually a good thing for their opponent.

I spend a lot of thought about how to play certain situations against many of the regulars, and I try to figure out which ones know me well and read my posts and so on. For instance I played about 16-20 games today with someone whom Im quite sure is a regular 2+2er and probably reads some stuff I say. I know he sees most of what I write.

[curtains]

Actually in regards to this player today. I was really hoping they would just decide to stop sitting with me. Im quite sure they are a 12-20% ROI player, and its obviously hurting our EV's somewhat to sit together, but okay Im never going to budge, because the loss in hourly rate by waiting for other tables may offset that.

Unfortunately they seemed to have no intention of avoiding me either, and we just continued joining most of the same tourneys for 3 hours in a row.

[curtains]

btw about 25% of everything I wrote above was me talking out my A$$

[Annulus]

curtains, when do you play? I want to know so i can get involved in the "curtains hand postings?" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Gotmilk]

curtains is a fraud, I played 2 sng's with him and he finished 10th in both of them. according to his "supposed" stats thats like 2500-1 against.

lol greg nh's.

[Marnixvdb]

hello

I don't like the turn. Check or bet more. Fold to the raise. The board is not very good for your hand, but it's also hard to put villain on an ace. You will have the best hand a good % of the time, but I don't think a half potbet will get you most out of it.

I have a general question, prob noobish in this forum: why is everybody posting hands that curtains played and where do they get the info from?

Marnix

[bennies]

[ QUOTE ]
hello

I don't like the turn. Check or bet more. Fold to the raise. The board is not very good for your hand, but it's also hard to put villain on an ace. You will have the best hand a good % of the time, but I don't think a half potbet will get you most out of it.

I have a general question, prob noobish in this forum: why is everybody posting hands that curtains played and where do they get the info from?

Marnix

[/ QUOTE ]

We all have direct access to his screen sucking out the data of this world champion player...

naaaaa /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

He has people helping him go over his hand histories and post interesting hands for discussion.