Weird situation...

[Drontier]

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (3 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

[Fianchetto]

I think you should bet this turn.

[Drontier]

i was tryign to induce a bluff...

[Fianchetto]

[ QUOTE ]
i was tryign to induce a bluff...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather he folded. Your hand is very vulnerable, it's not a way ahead/way behind thing, if you are ahead he's probably got at least 6 outs and you'd be giving him a free shot to beat you.

[Drontier]

yes, but i do not want to get moved off by what could be the best hand by a c/r. and by checking most players will bluff regardless of river.

[Fianchetto]

[ QUOTE ]
yes, but i do not want to get moved off by what could be the best hand by a c/r. and by checking most players will bluff regardless of river.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a tough spot then, but I still like a bet. I think you can usually fold to a checkraise. But maybe here you even have to call down a checkraise if he is doing a lot of those kind of moves.

Thing is people will take one off on the flop like this all the time, with all sorts of crap. If he knows that you'll often check the turn even when you have a made hand, he's gonna start peeling very liberally knowing he can frequently see two cards for 1SB.

[Drontier]

yes, but as long as hes still betting regardless of river. this is good right? for big pots, we want to make sure we charge. for small ones, we want to induce bluffs.

I'd bet the turn and check behind river.

[ArturiusX]

Bet the turn, he's probably got 6 outs against you and folding him would be good.

The problem with inducing a bluff is depending on the card, he might not bet again, which he didn't, and end up check-raising you. Its easier to give this up to a turn c/r.

[dave44]

[ QUOTE ]
yes, but i do not want to get moved off by what could be the best hand by a c/r. and by checking most players will bluff regardless of river.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bet the turn and call down if he check-raises. Your hand is pretty strong for this board in a sb v. bb battle.

[Drontier]

I don't understand why the turn check is bad. He can have ten outs against me and I don't think its bad, because regardless hes most likely putting in another bet on the river(hit or miss) and I'm not betting the river if he calls the turn. I also don't want to be moved off the best hand.

[Catt]

You're making a lot of assumptions here. You gave no read, so I'm treating him as unknown. You have 44 which means that if he's C/Ring a worse hand, it is total air or some draw. Do people do this at 10/20? Sure; but those sorts of people aren't usually the kind that open-complete in the SB HU and then ck-cl the innocuous flop against a BB's auto-bet after BB's PFR. Your hand is very vulnerable but may be best. If it is best he almost certainly has at least 6 and maybe upwards of 15 to improve. I think if you're C/Red on the turn, you can let it go and feel fine, even if this time it was a worse hand. You need a reason to believe this guy is capable of C/Ring a worse hand with enough frequency to either call a C/R (with little chance to improve) or check through with such a vulnerable hand. You also need a reason to believe he'll bet the river after you check the turn. I know the game is aggressive, but there are plenty of guys who will check to you on the river, too, planning on calling sometimes, folding sometimes, and raising sometimes. And as Fianchetto said, plenty of guys in this game will peel the flop and fold the turn for a bet. Unless you have a reason to suspect he's capable of C/Ring air I think you should approach this pretty straightforwardly - which is to bet the turn and fold to a raise.

I'd save this sort of play with a made hand with little chance of improving on the river for when you're up against a player that you know is aggressive and tenacious in blind-vs-blind situations.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why the turn check is bad. He can have ten outs against me and I don't think its bad, because regardless hes most likely putting in another bet on the river(hit or miss) and I'm not betting the river if he calls the turn. I also don't want to be moved off the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bluff turn checkraises are uncommon, even at 10/20. If he's checkraising the turn here usually he's got a good hand or a BIIIIIIIIG draw (T8s) as an unknown. But most people go more bets with those on the flop anyway.

You also don't know (or haven't stated) that he's prone to either bluffing the river after a check (some will, some won't -- especially since a turn check looks like A-high inducing a bluff), so more often than not you're losing the pot when you check and he hits but aren't gaining a full bet when he misses.

Rob