fairly simple 20-40 hand

[Victor]

villain is 20/10/1.2 over 200

villain opens in the hijack i 3bet 99 in the sb, bb and villain call.

flop is 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

bet, bb folds, call.

turn is 10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

i bet, villain raises.....

gimme a line.

I call down. At 1.2 aggression, he'll still make moves. His raise may mean he has a T or it may mean that the turn T means he doesn't believe you have a T and thinks his overcards or lower pockets are good.

[Drontier]

yea...fairly easy call down i think.

[sthief09]

very unlikely he doesnt cap preflop with a better hand. very unlikely he just calls the flop with a T. not that likely he raises 33/22 in the hijack. you have the best hand almost always. 3-bet. i dont know what hes raising with but id rather get the money in than try to hope he bluffs the river. he might have AQ or something and decide he wants to look you up. he might fold 6 outs on the spot but fold to a river bet if you call, or check behind the river if you call. i dont think its an easy 3-bet despite being almost positive you are good here just becuase theres not a whole lot of value in it. but its better than calling when you know you are best

i take ti back. i didnt see he was 20/12/1.2. i call down

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
villain is 20/10/1.2 over 200

villain opens in the hijack i 3bet 99 in the sb, bb and villain call.

flop is 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

bet, bb folds, call.

turn is 10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

i bet, villain raises.....

gimme a line.

[/ QUOTE ]

he is not aggressive. he pops you. yuck. i think i call down. but part of me wants to 3-bet/fold.

[Alobar]

eff that, I 3 bet, he doesnt have a ten or any hand that beats you, and if he does, yay for him, it either costs me the same as calling down, or at most 1 more BB and I think something like 77 that you dont want to fold, would have raised the flop, and the pot is big enough you want him to fold his KJ or whatever. and even if its like Ax that only has 3 outs, I still dont mind him folding because I dont think he puts in a river bet often enough.

[Victor]

hey guys i effed up. this is a fulltable hand and those stats are fulltable.

josh you can move it if you want.

[partygirluk]

Depends how you think he will react to a 3 bet. Have to say it seems very likely he has a mid pair/f all. I am very tempted to call, and then check raise the river pwning his 66

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
Depends how you think he will react to a 3 bet. Have to say it seems very likely he has a mid pair/f all. I am very tempted to call, and then check raise the river pwning his 66

[/ QUOTE ]

3betting and leading is far better bc you win the same bets and he cant check behind the river (which he did).

[partygirluk]

WEll Victor, as I said it depends upon how he reacts to a 3 bet. Many players with these stats will dump it but will value bet the river if you just call. Note: calling the turn raise and betting the river is another viable option.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
WEll Victor, as I said it depends upon how he reacts to a 3 bet. Many players with these stats will dump it but will value bet the river if you just call. Note: calling the turn raise and betting the river is another viable option.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree. thats what i did. but i was all the way into calldown mode on the turn then i thought about it on the river and i was like, [censored] this dude, hes fos. so, yea i was kinda wondering if its better to 3bet or stopngo.

joshes response is pretty good as to why its better to 3bet tho bc he may incorrectly fold 6 outs that he wont pay off on the river.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
gimme a line.

[/ QUOTE ]

________fold_________


Edit: I responded before reading the thread. I see I am in the minority opinion. Nothing I read made me change my mind yet, but I will take it all under advisement.

[partygirluk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
gimme a line.

[/ QUOTE ]

________fold_________


Edit: I responded before reading the thread. I see I am in the minority opinion. Nothing I read made me change my mind yet, but I will take it all under advisement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding is horrendous here. It is akin to lighting money on fire. What do you put him on? Every hand that beats us is most likely played differently. You should be concetned with extracting the most money here.

[DMBFan23]

disclaimer: I'm not advocating folding.

Why can't he have a T? I see people call the flop and raise the turn a lot with top pair, especially when he makes trips. am I missing something because hero 3-bet?

[Victor]

i didnt 3bet.

[jquattro]

Sorry for asking a potentially stupid question, but do we easily fold to a turn cap?

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
very unlikely he just calls the flop with a T.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because? I sometimes call this flop with a ten intending to raise the turn.

More importantly, Villain did call the flop and he has to have something. There is no obvious reason why KT is raising the flop while 88 is raising the turn instead. The relative probabilities of a ten or pocket pair don't seem to have changed much from preflop:

AT: 8
KT: 8
QTs: 2
JTs: 2

88-66: 18

That's 20-18 in favor of the ten. Obviously you can adjust his starting standards a little but it should always come out about 50-50. We can also consider:

Flush draw AJ/KQ/KJ/QJ: 4

Clearly these aren't worth face value. Maybe I'll call them 2 and make it an exact 20-20 tie.

I think most posters are too optimistic. Your pot equity looks about 50% here. Further aggression is good if you can comfortably fold to another raise. Personally that idea doesn't thrill me. Further aggression is bad if he finds the fold with an underpair. That sounds like some posters I know with stats similar to Villain's.

I call this down but it's a close choice. You could reconsider after you see the river. Bet-folding could work if you caught something to represent, like an ace.

[d10]

I'd 3-bet and call down a turn cap.

[mungpo]

As much as I want to 3-bet this turn. I would just call down against this opponent.

[d10]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
very unlikely he just calls the flop with a T.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because? I sometimes call this flop with a ten intending to raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your line when the turn brings another overcard?

[ QUOTE ]
More importantly, Villain did call the flop and he has to have something. There is no obvious reason why KT is raising the flop while 88 is raising the turn instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there is. 88 may be planning on calling down, or raising a safe turn. Another T is about the safest card 88 could see. However I'm always raising a T on the flop here.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Because? I sometimes call this flop with a ten intending to raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your line when the turn brings another overcard?

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean the first overcard?

I do whatever makes me happy depending on the exact situation:

1. Scream "damn the torpedos" and raise anyway.

2. Pat myself on the back for my good timimg in not raising the flop and then quietly call down or maybe peel and fold the river.

I'm certainly not going to kick myself about just calling the flop after a vomitrocious turn hits. Raising the flop and having an ace hit your KT is the worst feeling in the world.