I'm going broke here everytime right? AKs 100NL

[Morrek]

I just sat down maybe 2-3 hands ago, I had 5 hands on villain as I played this, 60/20 stats or something like that. UTG was same thing, similar stats and 5 hands on him, no clue who either are. I put MP squarely on a set of deuces, there was nothing else I could see, which is also what he had. But I kept thinking "I can't fold top2 with AK, so just get the money in there already you [censored] wimp". And so, AKs is still a losing hand for me after 32k hands on party.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

MP ($87.35)
Hero ($100.85)
Button ($103.60)
SB ($91.85)
BB ($47)
UTG ($84.60)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls $5, MP calls $5.

Flop: ($19.50) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $18</font>, UTG calls $18, MP calls $18.

Turn: ($73.50) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $20</font>, Hero calls $76.85 (All-In), UTG folds, MP calls $43.35 (All-In).

River: ($213.70) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $213.70

Betting less on the flop so I could get away seems impossible considering draws, calling turn seems to suck ass, and folding is just all out weak. But I just see no other hands than 22 that would call my allin on turn, maybe K2, A2, but it seems farfetched to me against an unknown. No other way to play this right?

[4_2_it]

Well, if he has a set of 2's then he has my money.

[Morrek]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if he has a set of 2's then he has my money.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I've been thinking too, but I lost several of these now, and really, what's the difference between AK on A72 flop and AK on AK2 flop? Especially when the pot gets this big on the turn

[Kyriefurro]

Ugainst an unknown, I'm going broke with you. No other way to play this, IMO.

[tripp0807]

You did nothing wrong in this hand.

[PinkSteel]

nh

[aces_dad]

AK2 is preferable because a set of 7's is not possible on the AK2 board.

[Morrek]

[ QUOTE ]
AK2 is preferable because a set of 7's is not possible on the AK2 board.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I suppose. Oh well, just another hand where Hero's destined to go broke I guess.

You bet too much on every street IMO. I personally dont like to bloat the pot unless i got the nuts or close to it. Preflop, raise a bit less. On the flop, if you bet half the pot, you are charging any draw plenty. Other than that, its really hard to get away from this with no reads. Play AK like the drawing hand that it is, and it shouldnt be a big loser.

[DJ Sensei]

I think we all go broke here. NH.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
You bet too much on every street IMO. I personally dont like to bloat the pot unless i got the nuts or close to it. Preflop, raise a bit less. On the flop, if you bet half the pot, you are charging any draw plenty. Other than that, its really hard to get away from this with no reads. Play AK like the drawing hand that it is, and it shouldnt be a big loser.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hard to get a better flop than AK2 with AK. How is he betting too much? AK might be a drawing hand, but he just hit his draw. I have no problem putting my stack behind top two pair with no flush or straight out there.

[aces_dad]

Would you consider a KK2 flop close enough to the nuts to bloat the pot?

Half a pot on the flop is laying 3:1 to a flush draw, which doesn't make them chase incorrectly.

This is me after that hand:

http://www.ccsefcuweb.com/empty%20pockets.jpg

[ QUOTE ]
AK2 is preferable because a set of 7's is not possible on the AK2 board.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you have 2 more outs /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I go broke here as well.

[Delphin]

I like the way you played it. If he has 22, I like the way he played it too. Sometimes you are destined to lose it all, and this is one of those situations.

Depending on the player, lots of hands could call the PSB on the flop and donk the turn. I expect to see a big draw here Q/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif or similar here a decent portion of the time.

[EMcWilliams]

This is what variance really is....not "oh, I lost cause of a bad beat." If villain has me...thats poker. You need to play this aggro, and you took a fine line. Smile when he shows ATo. HAHHAHA.

[ QUOTE ]
This is what variance really is....not "oh, I lost cause of a bad beat." If villain has me...thats poker. You need to play this aggro, and you took a fine line. Smile when he shows ATo. HAHHAHA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great Point.

You just can't be aggressive if you're always worried about the worst possible scenario.

I remember hearing David Lee Roth say that when he goes fishing, he brings a frying pan and a camera.

[man]

if you want honest answers I don't think it's best to post the results of your hand in the OP. but meh. if this guy had 22, if you're not going broke on the turn you're going broke on the river.

Going broke. Hell, half the time I KNOW he has 22 but push everytime.

[fathertime]

aakk beats aa22

[CWolf]

[ QUOTE ]
aakk beats aa22

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, AAKK beats AA22, but it does not beat 222.

EDIT: I have to agree with pretty much everyone thus far. You took a good line and took a tough beat. It happens, shake it off and reload.

Seems like alot of people here overvalue AK preflop and post flop. I will certainly lose alot on this board as well, but I wouldnt have played for my whole stack. Play for your whole stack when your the one with a set of dueces. With no reads, two pair is not worth losing your entire stack. Thats all I am saying. Bloating the pot up like this makes it impossible to get away from.

I personally would raise more like 4xBB preflop, then half the pot on the flop, then 3/4 on the turn if you put him on a draw. Then if he still calls and a blank comes, put in a good value bet on the river. If he comes over the top on the river he most likely has a slow played monster. AK should not be a losing hand, your doing something wrong obviously.

Also ask yourself what hands call your turn push that you can beat? You dont have enough reads to tell if villian would PF raise with AQ, so that is a possibility. With his range of cards, the only hand that I see him calling here that you have beat is AQ, some sort of monster draw, A6, A2.
I dont think most people are calling A6 or A2 to a preflop raise. You want him to have AQ really. He bet into a PF raiser that showed strength on the flop, that always smells fishy. The way villian played the hand was well because it looked like a good draw and I probably would have put him on a draw and donated my money to him.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like alot of people here overvalue AK preflop and post flop. I will certainly lose alot on this board as well, but I wouldnt have played for my whole stack. Play for your whole stack when your the one with a set of dueces. With no reads, two pair is not worth losing your entire stack. Thats all I am saying. Bloating the pot up like this makes it impossible to get away from.

I personally would raise more like 4xBB preflop, then half the pot on the flop, then 3/4 on the turn if you put him on a draw. Then if he still calls and a blank comes, put in a good value bet on the river. If he comes over the top on the river he most likely has a slow played monster. AK should not be a losing hand, your doing something wrong obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK two pair on a non-straight, non-flush board is essentially a set. I'll go to felt with no other Broadway cards out there. I do not think hero overplayed this hand. If he had A2 or K2, then hero would have made a huge mistake.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seems like alot of people here overvalue AK preflop and post flop. I will certainly lose alot on this board as well, but I wouldnt have played for my whole stack. Play for your whole stack when your the one with a set of dueces. With no reads, two pair is not worth losing your entire stack. Thats all I am saying. Bloating the pot up like this makes it impossible to get away from.

I personally would raise more like 4xBB preflop, then half the pot on the flop, then 3/4 on the turn if you put him on a draw. Then if he still calls and a blank comes, put in a good value bet on the river. If he comes over the top on the river he most likely has a slow played monster. AK should not be a losing hand, your doing something wrong obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK two pair on a non-straight, non-flush board is essentially a set. I'll go to felt with no other Broadway cards out there. I do not think hero overplayed this hand. If he had A2 or K2, then hero would have made a huge mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

I only think the most donkey players would call the turn push without a hand that beats hero.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]

I only think the most donkey players would call the turn push without a hand that beats hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at villain's stack, he is pot committed and shoudl call with the flush draw.

[tripp0807]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like alot of people here overvalue AK preflop and post flop. I will certainly lose alot on this board as well, but I wouldnt have played for my whole stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.sciam.com/media/inline/00076D85-79FE-11B7-B9FE83414B7F0000_1.gif

Offtopic:
[ QUOTE ]
Half a pot on the flop is laying 3:1 to a flush draw, which doesn't make them chase incorrectly.

[/ QUOTE ]
Chasing a flush is 4:1 per card. Betting half pot on the flop and turn makes chasing incorrect without implied odds.

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
I only think the most donkey players would call the turn push without a hand that beats hero.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well then I guess it's a good thing that there are lots of super donkeys out there.

To OP: Hand looks perfect, sorry you lost.

[dbitel]

I agree with every1 that hand looks fine.

I think that you could possibly, maybe just call on the turn, but your stack is most probably getting in on the river anyway

gunther, the raise preflop is fine, AK is a good hand, and you should play it as one, dont let people see a flop for cheap. As for betting 1/2 pot on flop, as the others say, that lets opponent draw for too cheap.

OP, unlucky, but take some pleasure in the fact if you also play AA and KK like that on this board your getting all his money those times /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Out of interest, if you were villian in this position..would you be at all scared of AA and KK (baring in mind AK is the only other hand hero can play like this), or is that far too weak?

[derick]

[ QUOTE ]
I just sat down maybe 2-3 hands ago, I had 5 hands on villain as I played this, 60/20 stats or something like that. UTG was same thing, similar stats and 5 hands on him, no clue who either are. I put MP squarely on a set of deuces, there was nothing else I could see, which is also what he had. But I kept thinking "I can't fold top2 with AK, so just get the money in there already you [censored] wimp". And so, AKs is still a losing hand for me after 32k hands on party.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

MP ($87.35)
Hero ($100.85)
Button ($103.60)
SB ($91.85)
BB ($47)
UTG ($84.60)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls $5, MP calls $5.

Flop: ($19.50) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $18</font>, UTG calls $18, MP calls $18.

Turn: ($73.50) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $20</font>, Hero calls $76.85 (All-In), UTG folds, MP calls $43.35 (All-In).

River: ($213.70) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $213.70

Betting less on the flop so I could get away seems impossible considering draws, calling turn seems to suck ass, and folding is just all out weak. But I just see no other hands than 22 that would call my allin on turn, maybe K2, A2, but it seems farfetched to me against an unknown. No other way to play this right?

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm really working on turning around my AKs play from losing to winning.

Some comments:

I like the 6bb bet preflop.

Betting 1/2 the pot on the flop is not enough. Giving a flush draw 3 to 1 plus implied odds on a 4 to 1 draw is not making the opponent make a mistake.

Default play vs a 2 flush board is you should be betting 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot. ($13 to $14)
That way you give the flush draws bad odds but don't bloat the pot. Harrington on Holdem addresses this issue directly.
But here I think the OP wants to bloat the pot since he thinks he's ahead right?

What do you think the $20 with $43.35 behind on the turn is?
The six is unlikely to help anyone and you just bet the pot and got called. Is it meant to look like a blocking bet from a flush draw?

He's offering your odds of $93 for a $20 bet.


That's fabulous odds and he knows it.


If you call and then catch one of 2 A's or 2 K's then you can put him all in with your boat giving him odds of $156 for $43 to call you at the risk of letting a flush in for cheap.

Why would he make a $20 blockbet/potsweetener/suckbet on the turn after closing the action on the fop?

You can probably put me down as another person who will go broke in this hand. I'm not sure how to not lose.

[-Skeme-]

I'd check-fold turn, it's obvious I'm beat. I agree with Gunther, you guys just don't have the discipline to fold your overvalued AKo.

[troymclur]

The thing i love about these boards, is that people get so damned caught up in "the right play" about a hand that's isolated and out of context. Even when somebody gives descriptions of reads, the hand is still out of context. This argument (fold or push) is really down to ones personal style and aggression. What i'm trying to say is...can't we all just get along?

[ QUOTE ]
I'd check-fold turn, it's obvious I'm beat. I agree with Gunther, you guys just don't have the discipline to fold your overvalued AKo.

[/ QUOTE ]

The guy played his set horribly IMO, especially PF and on the flop. He's lucky that somebody (hero) hit the flop hard so they would keep leading into his monster hand. The only warning signal was the 20 dollar bet, which would get me thinking: "crap, flush draw or set...which one does he have?"

I'm going broke more times than i'm folding.

[excession]

I like a 3xBB raise with AK as I want AQ, ,AJ and AT to call (and KQ and KJ is possible)..why force out only the hands you dominate?

Pairs are calling anyway..