Curtains defends his blinds (with bonus comedy hand!)

[wuwei]

Figured I'd leave this one unconverted, in case the villian matters.


Level:4 Blinds(50/100) - Wednesday, December 21, 01:11:29 EDT 2005
Table Table 69557 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: rodattam ( $1908 )
Seat 3: Gamboholic_ ( $1369 )
Seat 6: danh67 ( $430 )
Seat 7: oneeyejoker ( $1863 )
Seat 8: ILuvCurtains ( $725 )
Seat 9: satinblossom ( $1970 )
Seat 10: treetoedpete ( $1735 )
Trny:18465613 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ILuvCurtains [ 9s 7s ]
satinblossom folds.
treetoedpete folds.
rodattam folds.
Gamboholic_ folds.
danh67 folds.
oneeyejoker raises [150].
ILuvCurtains calls [100].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ad, 8s, Qh ]
oneeyejoker checks.
ILuvCurtains checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ks ]
oneeyejoker checks.
ILuvCurtains is all-In [525]...

[wuwei]

Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: rodattam ( $1908 )
Seat 2: scrubs729 ( $700 )
Seat 3: Gamboholic_ ( $1419 )
Seat 6: danh67 ( $580 )
Seat 7: oneeyejoker ( $1813 )
Seat 8: ILuvCurtains ( $725 )
Seat 9: satinblossom ( $1970 )
Seat 10: treetoedpete ( $885 )
Trny:18465613 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ILuvCurtains [ Kd 9s ]
oneeyejoker folds.
ILuvCurtains folds.
satinblossom folds.
treetoedpete raises [300].
rodattam folds.
scrubs729 raises [699].
Gamboholic_ folds.
danh67 folds.
scrubs729: MEHEHE I GOT A GOOD ONE
scrubs729: MAKE SURE TO RERAISE THOUGH
scrubs729: JUST TO BE SURE
treetoedpete calls [399].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qh, 5d, 5h ]
scrubs729: COOL
ILuvCurtains: lolzz
scrubs729: NOW BET FLOP
scrubs729: IMMED
scrubs729: HOPING I FOLD
scrubs729: NEVER CHECK
treetoedpete is all-In [186]
scrubs729: YOU REALIZE NORMALLY I USE WHOLE TIME BANK HERE
scrubs729: TO TEACH YOU LESSON
scrubs729 will be using his time bank for this hand.
scrubs729: ALWAYS CHECK DOWN YOU PSKJGGLK
scrubs729: @#(%)*&@
treetoedpete: scrub this
scrubs729 is all-In [1]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 4h ]
treetoedpete shows [ Td, Th ] a full house, Fives full of tens.
scrubs729 shows [ 9h, 9c ] a full house, Fives full of nines.
treetoedpete wins 185 chips from side pot #1 with a full house, Fives full of tens.
treetoedpete wins 1550 chips from the main pot with a full house, Fives full of tens.
scrubs729 finished in eighth place.
scrubs729 has left the table.

[gumpzilla]

This is a weird hand. I wouldn't ordinarily play blind D in this fashion with such a small stack. If the minraise isn't garbage, there's going to be approximately 0 flops that I'm happy about with my particular holding. If the minraise is garbage, it seems like pushing preflop has a slightly higher chance of getting him out (yes, I know he'd be getting ~2:1, but people do find folds there sometimes). Having gotten to the flop in this fashion, I probably push right away and hope I don't run into an A. Waiting to the turn in this instance doesn't really look that much more convincing to me and I don't want to miss my opportunity to try and make the steal.

I'm interested in hearing what curtains has to say about this one.

[curtains]

scrubs is a friend of mine, he obviously did it for my amusement. He loves to move allin minus 1 chip and then talk for long periods of time.

Stack is too short for flat call blind defense scheme. How does hero play a flop that misses him? After two checks, going all-in makes some sense, but we are talking about a villain who checked both flop and turn after raising. Does this seem suspicious to Hero from prior info, or is it simply passivity?

This is a sketchy situation brought on by the incorrect flat call.

[curtains]

I think that people on 2+2 suffer from a "worst case" mindset. What I mean is that it seems some of you believe that 100% of the time when we call this preflop our opponent will bet the flop. We also believe that a large % of the time when we hit the flop with top or 2nd pair, that our opponent will have us beat.

However as you see it dosen't always play out like this. Sometimes your opponent will just check twice for no reason and you don't need to actually make a hand. Yes I was a bit suspicious but the combined chance of me winning the pot immediately, and the flush draw possibility led me to make this bet. I felt that I was too shortstacked and needed the chips in the center.

Basically I am getting 3-1 pot odds in position with a decent hand. Im very shortstacked and it makes the hand very easy to play after the flop. For instance if the flop is Q74 and my opponent bets, all my chips go in the pot. Sometimes they will fold, sometimes they will even call with a worse hand and sometimes I will be beaten. In any case the pot odds Im getting preflop are too good IMO for me to fold to a min raise. I would have folded to a 125 raise however.

Also I think the flop check by my opponent is quite bad.

[ZBTHorton]

[ QUOTE ]
scrubs is a friend of mine, he obviously did it for my amusement. He loves to move allin minus 1 chip and then talk for long periods of time.

[/ QUOTE ]

sigh..dj...dj...dj...

My apologies, I thought blinds were 25/50 and a 3x 150 raise. Calling a minraise in position is fine, as is everything afterwards. Flop check is horrid. I wasn't saying opponent is def. tricky though, chances are he isn't and is just passive, but I wasn't in the hand, so I couldn't know.

[Gotmilk]

[ QUOTE ]

sigh..dj...dj...dj...

[/ QUOTE ]

what does dj mean?

[ZBTHorton]

I know Scrubs too.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that people on 2+2 suffer from a "worst case" mindset. What I mean is that it seems some of you believe that 100% of the time when we call this preflop our opponent will bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't believe this. What I do believe is that it will happen quite often, and most of the time when it happens you're going to be folding after putting in ~30% of your stack preflop. If this opponent is poor enough to minraise and check two streets on this rather scary board, don't you think that they are very likely to fold their minraise to a push over the top PF? Notice also that you also ended up with a board where he didn't bet and you were still paralyzed.

EDIT: Also, I just saw this:

[ QUOTE ]

In any case the pot odds Im getting preflop are too good IMO for me to fold to a min raise. I would have folded to a 125 raise however.

[/ QUOTE ]

??? How about 105? I bet that makes a huge difference in the profitability, too. Against many opponents, the minraise is more likely to be a big hand, and as such usually compensate for the miniscule improvement in direct odds you're getting. I really don't think this last bit makes sense.

[Gotmilk]

[ QUOTE ]
I know Scrubs too.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but i don't get this dj thing...sounds like what you'd call some degenerate that drinks constantly and squats in your house.

[ZBTHorton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know Scrubs too.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but i don't get this dj thing...sounds like what you'd call some degenerate that drinks constantly and squats in your house.

[/ QUOTE ]


That's his name.

And..I wouldn't put it past him I don't guess.

[sofere]

I like this play with the flush draw turn, but would you make this play if the turn was a complete blank?

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think that people on 2+2 suffer from a "worst case" mindset. What I mean is that it seems some of you believe that 100% of the time when we call this preflop our opponent will bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I don't believe this. What I do believe is that it will happen quite often, and most of the time when it happens you're going to be folding after putting in ~30% of your stack preflop. If this opponent is poor enough to minraise and check two streets on this rather scary board, don't you think that they are very likely to fold their minraise to a push over the top PF? Notice also that you also ended up with a board where he didn't bet and you were still paralyzed.

EDIT: Also, I just saw this:

[ QUOTE ]

In any case the pot odds Im getting preflop are too good IMO for me to fold to a min raise. I would have folded to a 125 raise however.

[/ QUOTE ]

??? How about 105? I bet that makes a huge difference in the profitability, too. Against many opponents, the minraise is more likely to be a big hand, and as such usually compensate for the miniscule improvement in direct odds you're getting. I really don't think this last bit makes sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

gump its my fault, I mistakenly thought I called a 50 chip raise, and was referring to a 75 chip raise. In this case Id probably fold to a 150 chip raise. Also I dont think that a min raise from this opponent meant a likely big hand.

[curtains]

btw my main point in this call is that Im very short stacked and going to have a hard time finding many more +EV spots to come. Getting 3-1 here with a decent hand felt good enough to me. Most of the time if I flop 2nd pair or better, Im fine with getting all my chips in the pot, and sometimes as you see, I don't need to make a hand to win the pot.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
I like this play with the flush draw turn, but would you make this play if the turn was a complete blank?

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably would check the turn on a blank....

Also this play is very debatable for sure. Folding preflop is fine, by no means am I saying this is an easy call or anything like that.

[Gotmilk]

[ QUOTE ]

Also this play is very debatable for sure. Folding preflop is fine, by no means am I saying this is an easy call or anything like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

its a fairly easy call against many typical players. it's good to have the database going so you can get a line on how they would play. lots of players min-raise almost any 2 there, some only min-raise QQ. good spot to be a poker player and use the evidence you've seen so far to make a read. i think given full information about opponent type it's an easy decision (fold or call). i'm not sure folding is even fine against a player who is raising a bunch of hands there, there are not many better chances to double up than to get a flop of T73 and your opponent moves all-in or min bets or whatever it is that these guys do.