($27) - a boring A9s for inspection

[bluefeet]

Villian Notes (from this, and previous meetings)
L1 BB QJo reraised a 15x PF all-in for his whole stack
L5 limp-calling 3x behind w/7bb's
L2 MP QQ limp behind 2 others
L2 EP J5s minraise

Just a very well-rounded donk really.

$27 Stars turbo
Seat 8: (1510 in chips)
Seat 9: (1085 in chips)
Seat 1: (1655 in chips)
<font color="red">Seat 2: (3820 in chips) Villian</font>
Seat 5: (745 in chips)
Seat 6: (3220 in chips) SB
<font color="blue">bluefeet (1465 in chips) BB</font>
L3 - 25/50

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bluefeet [A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif]
3 folds
Seat 2: raises 50 to 100
2 folds
bluefeet: calls 50
*** FLOP *** [T/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif]
bluefeet: checks
Seat 2: bets 150
bluefeet: calls 150
*** TURN *** [T/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif] [K/images/graemlins/spade.gif]
bluefeet: checks
Seat 2: checks
*** RIVER *** [T/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif] [J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif]
bluefeet: bets 150
Seat 2: calls 150

Anything you love/hate?

[tigerite]

I like it up til the river.. not sure of the point of the bet there, what hand can he have that will call the bet, A2-A8, KT, or something? Or is it a blocking bet? In which case, it's alright I suppose.

[pergesu]

I think it's fine but I would check the river. He checked behind on the turn because he could presumably be scared of a queen....anyway the basic point of this hand is that he simply will not call with any hand that you can beat. He's folding a K/T/lower PP. You chop with an ace...so there's really just no reason to bet (unless you feel this was a blocking bet? That'd be strange to me, but I never know with you /images/graemlins/tongue.gif). Check it to him and it'll probably check through. This also has the added benefit that he obviously can't raise you when you're beat, and you sometimes pick off a bluff too.

So yeah, fine all the way but I check the river. I was thinking I'd c/c, but I may even fold if he were to bet as he should check behind with a hand that has any kind of showdown value.

[bluefeet]

It serves as a little of both, but most certainly this was a value bet. THIS GUY will make this call with any Ace or King.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]

It serves as a little of both, but most certainly this was a value bet. THIS GUY will make this call with any Ace or King.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hrm I dunno, you chop with an ace (duh), and do you really think he calls you with a king? That's one hell of a board to make a call with a king..anyway I think it'd be better to just check and pick off a bluff, if you think he'd make one. But I definitely don't value bet this river because there's no value to be had, other than him donking off some chips to you.

[bluefeet]

Sure...Ace we split - no "value" added there. Eh, the notes probably don't do the read justice. After the turn, I'm certain he does not have an Ace, a Queen, or 2-pair. Straight or no straight, he's pumping the pot if any of those where true at the turn. With the Jack pairing on the river, I'm also not worried about the boat any longer. I'm ahead here almost always. I guess in that respect, looking to check-call could possibly be more profitable, assuming he might bluff behind. But despite all of this paint on the board, my flop call, my PF call, this guy is still calling here with a number of hands.

[bluefeet]

...more often donking chips, then bluffing behind - I guess is the point.

But I DO agree with both of you. Check-calling is probably a more standard line.

[45suited]

Against someone who is this much of an idiot, would it be terrible to push pre-flop? Or are we just giving away too much of our advantage to outplay him post-flop by doing this?

Obviously I realize that A9s is not a re-raising hand, but if you have a read like this... I dunno. Just a thought. I mean, the guy re-raised with QJo and mini-raised with J5s, right? Your hand is likely at least a 60-40 favorite over his pre-flop, and the problem with playing it (the way I see it anyway) the way you did is that you hit your ace, but still couldn't bet it strongly.

I think this is one of those times where I just go with a read and come over the top pre-flop.

I should add that I'm biased because I think that frequent mini-raisers belong at the bottom of the ocean. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[durron597]

What was the plan if he raised the river?

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
Against someone who is this much of an idiot, would it be terrible to push pre-flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

It crossed my mind, but I think we risk to much 'wanting' him to call, even if we're ahead. Likewise, I think I find a way to get more on a decent flop. Just enough chips to dance with the donk, a few too many maybe to push for his minraise.

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
What was the plan if he raised the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

VERY fair question - damn you! Well, that might be a problem then wouldn't it? Like I said, I was most certain that I was ahead getting here as we did. A push over in theory might indicate otherwise. I've ruled out the boat here (i.e. he probably isn't pushing with 3rd-4th nut hand), and I just can't see him having the other hands that beat me. I would assume it to be bluff/semi-bluff (Ace mabye) and call.

[45suited]

I know what you're saying, but if you have a strong read, I look at it like this:

I'm going to trust my read. If correct, I'm over a 3:2 favorite AND I have FE. Just because my hand is not what would 'normally' be a re-raising hand, against this guy, why should I pass up a 3:2 edge. Isn't that the whole point of making reads?

Moreoever, it is nice to play back at donks like this, to let him know that your blind will not be mini-raised.

I'm not arguing with you (you make great, well thought out posts), just giving you my perspective...

not too bad IMO. you didn't consider leading the turn? or were you more in pot control, value bet the river mode?

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
I know what you're saying, but if you have a strong read, I look at it like this:

I'm going to trust my read. If correct, I'm over a 3:2 favorite AND I have FE. Just because my hand is not what would 'normally' be a re-raising hand, against this guy, why should I pass up a 3:2 edge. Isn't that the whole point of making reads?

Moreoever, it is nice to play back at donks like this, to let him know that your blind will not be mini-raised.

I'm not arguing with you (you make great, well thought out posts), just giving you my perspective...

[/ QUOTE ]

I hearya /images/graemlins/wink.gif I push over in this situation with worse from time to time, but usually saving that for the "he's on a pure weak steal here" kind of read. That wasn't the case here at all. It wasn't a matter of knowing he had crap, so let's see the flop. It was more that he just isn't experienced enough to accurately understand his own hand strength, nor proceed properly PF or post. I didn't think he was stealing. I just knew I had a decent shot at getting some of his chips post-flop...at a minimal cost, with relatively low risk.

[bluefeet]

[ QUOTE ]
not too bad IMO. you didn't consider leading the turn? or were you more in pot control, value bet the river mode?

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh...his flop c-bet could be anything - including a hand containing a Queen. If i get raised here I'm toast (If he bets behind my check I fold as well). If he just calls a lead from me, I face a more difficult check-call decision on the river IMO.

There's nothing to cleaver in his arsenal. The turn didn't have to be a defining moment IMO. He's betting behind my check if he does have a Queen...or any other hand that I now fell behind.

[Roland32]

What about a bump to 400 preflop. The reason I state this is if he is in the habit of min raising random hands. Why not take the 100 now and hopefully keep him from min raise entering on bubble when he might be forced to call a push?

Other than that line, I think it was ok. I dont mind the river bet either, it seems this guy would call with a king.