Can the World be a Happy place? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Skip Brutale

12-21-2005, 04:44 AM

I was at my rents for dinner and something got me going off about how the world is such a sick, sad, miserable place of cruelty, pain, and sorrow. Then my mom chimed in with something like "or the world can be a happy place, it is what you make it".

I'm well versed on her counter-argument so I came back hard with a punishing "yeah you can be ignorant to reality and put the blinders on but that wont change the fact there are still children born with horrible birth defects, people still living in slavery, a woman getting raped somewhere right now, a child being molested, a dog dying or a plane crashing, even the Buddha said "life is suffering"".

She had no counter-point. Especially once I start quoting the Buddha to aid in my cause. Do you guys think I am wrong, and if so lets enter a debate where we wont change each other's minds, and things will quickly deteroriate into off-topic personal insults, one upmanship, and ego-damaging fueled anger.

xorbie

12-21-2005, 04:47 AM

i guess you could say it beats the alternative. holla.

Stuey

12-21-2005, 04:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
She had no counter-point.

[/ QUOTE ]

She had counter points she just knew they would be a waste on you. Yup your own mother knew. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Hell if I'm going to try then.

Skip Brutale

12-21-2005, 04:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
She had no counter-point.

[/ QUOTE ]

She had counter points she just new they would be a waste on you. Yup your own mother knew. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I see you are skipping any attempt at debate and going strait to the insults! Alright, you are like a little dog who gets kicked around!

Skip Brutale

12-21-2005, 04:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i guess you could say it beats the alternative. holla.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are saying what is important is not what is the true view, but what is the more liberating view. I say that choosing to use ignorance will not payoff in the end, and is selfish.

xorbie

12-21-2005, 04:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i guess you could say it beats the alternative. holla.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are saying what is important is not what is the true view, but what is the more liberating view. I say that choosing to use ignorance will not payoff in the end, and is selfish.

[/ QUOTE ]

you may want to consider attempting to understand what i said before trying to offer up such astute argumentation.

Skip Brutale

12-21-2005, 04:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i guess you could say it beats the alternative. holla.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are saying what is important is not what is the true view, but what is the more liberating view. I say that choosing to use ignorance will not payoff in the end, and is selfish.

[/ QUOTE ]

you may want to consider attempting to understand what i said before trying to offer up such astute argumentation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not a stupid man. If I read your post and dont know what you are talking about then you have writing problems. I suggest not trying to use fancy wordplay and instead getting to your point. Please rework your post then into something I can clearly comprehend, thanks!

Stuey

12-21-2005, 04:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
She had no counter-point.

[/ QUOTE ]

She had counter points she just knew they would be a waste on you. Yup your own mother knew. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Hell if I'm going to try then.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was not an insult this was a warning.

Your mother does not think you are capable of hearing what other people have to say and you did not hear what I just said.

Forget about the world get your mothers respect back.

Dam I said I would not try.

lastchance

12-21-2005, 04:58 AM

There's helluva lot of good in the world too, along with the evil, self-centered crap.

xorbie

12-21-2005, 04:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i guess you could say the world beats the alternative, non existence. holla.

[/ QUOTE ]

fmp just for you /images/graemlins/heart.gif

12-21-2005, 04:59 AM

I don't think the entire world can be a happy place. There is just too much [censored] going on in other parts of the world other than the U.S., where I'm from, places where constant war, poverty, hunger, disease, etc. exist to the Nth degree. Some of these countries, some continents, such as Africa, have little to no resources to help themselves without outside assistance. I remember hearing Oprah was one of their biggest contributors in terms of providing education for females.

Anyhow, it's practically impossible to ever think about having the entire world be happy at the same time. Lots of people will never be happy, even people who we may think have it all.

I think it's important to be happy. As long as you're happy, then you can start helping others be happy. Maybe then, we can start some kind of global chain where we pass it on to the billions in the world. Like Pay It Forward.

Skip Brutale

12-21-2005, 05:03 AM

So you said my mother doesn't respect me? Damn that is harsh. How do you know that? You are able to infer close details of my personal relationship with my mother based upon a snippet of a conversation I posted in here? What makes you able to do that?

Stuey

12-21-2005, 05:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So you said my mother doesn't respect me? Damn that is harsh. How do you know that? You are able to infer close details of my personal relationship with my mother based upon a snippet of a conversation I posted in here? What makes you able to do that?

[/ QUOTE ]

I could be wrong but I read your post and the only part I found interesting was the fact she did not try to change your mind.

Did she do this because she wants her son to live with a negative view of the world? No mother would want that

Did she do this because she has learned in the past you don't change your mind when she tries to debate with you? Good chance.

I guess you could have been so convincing that she has changed her view. I hope not.

I would not respect someone that I felt was incapable of changing his or her mind. So I assume your mom does not respect you.

I do not think you are on the right or wrong side of this debate as it is a toughie. I do think the chance of you changing your mind if you happen to be wrong is very low.

And I know for a fact that the world is an unhappy place when your mother does not respect you unhappy for you and for her. I'm not even happy about it!

Skip Brutale

12-21-2005, 05:30 AM

She did try to change my mind. She saw we were stalemated and gave up. You are projecting. How is your relationship with your mom?

Stuey

12-21-2005, 05:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
She did try to change my mind. She saw we were stalemated and gave up. You are projecting. How is your relationship with your mom?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what to say. I think it is good. Now you got me worried. I will ask her at xmas. You are good at this debate stuff.

My world was happy before I entered this thread I'm going to leave now. Deep down don't you wish I could have won though? Both our worlds would be happy now if I had. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

uw_madtown

12-21-2005, 05:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i guess you could say the world beats the alternative, non existence. holla.

[/ QUOTE ]

fmp just for you /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How this wasn't clear to OP before the FYP, I don't understand.

xorbie

12-21-2005, 06:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i guess you could say the world beats the alternative, non existence. holla.

[/ QUOTE ]

fmp just for you /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How this wasn't clear to OP before the FYP, I don't understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

im pretty sure he already explained that i have trouble writing coherently.

ChipWrecked

12-21-2005, 06:28 AM

I would hazard a guess that OP is a college-aged person.

Thread reminds me of the old political saying:

If you aren't liberal at 20, you have no heart.
If you aren't conservative at 40, you have no brain.

xorbie

12-21-2005, 06:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]

If you aren't liberal at 20, you have no heart.
If you aren't conservative at 40, you have no brain.

[/ QUOTE ]

is this sort of like the saying "the good die young"?

ChipWrecked

12-21-2005, 06:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If you aren't liberal at 20, you have no heart.
If you aren't conservative at 40, you have no brain.

[/ QUOTE ]

is this sort of like the saying "the good die young"?

[/ QUOTE ]

holla.

Mostly, the world is just indifferent.

toss

12-21-2005, 06:37 AM

Sure the world is full of hate, violence, etc. but isn't that also true for the opposite?

diebitter

12-21-2005, 06:42 AM

Individually, and for moments in time (beit minutes, hours, days, weeks etc), yes, definitely.

Otherwise, no.

Blarg

12-21-2005, 07:44 AM

You can look for good, but it's often a waste of time. Better than just stopping at realizing that most things and people suck, it's better to go to the next step of just treasuring what good things there are instead of taking them for granted, and trying to be the source of good things yourself. It's useless to realize something about the sucky state of the world and then do nothing. You might as well never have realized it at all.

chesspain

12-21-2005, 07:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Then my mom chimed in with something like "or the world can be a happy place, it is what you make it".

I'm well versed on her counter-argument so I came back hard with a punishing "yeah you can be ignorant to reality and put the blinders on but that wont change the fact there are still children born with horrible birth defects, people still living in slavery, a woman getting raped somewhere right now, a child being molested, a dog dying or a plane crashing, even the Buddha said "life is suffering"".

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because there is suffering in the world does not mean that on a daily basis you cannot make it a slightly better place by doing things like: refusing to engage in dick-like moves, showing consideration to others, etc.

Jdanz

12-21-2005, 08:36 AM

I'm pretty convince that the world is a good place and getting better. There is a lot of crap, but for the most part if someone is struggling people are more likely to help than hinder.

I live in NYC and there are tourists around all the time. When they ask people for directions people usually oblidge. Why would they do this rather than walking away if there isn't an inherent motive towards altruism.

In general i think that people are too self-involved to worry about helping other people, but all things being equal if it was little or no effort to them they would help their fellow man.

You're average person is far more likely to help a stranger who dropped a grocery bag then to intentionally knock it over. I mean look at OOT there is pleanty of dickery here, but for the most part when people askquestions the entire community gives them what they at least believe to be good advice, and at what benefit to themselves?

People are basically good, and that in my mind proves the world is a pretty good place.

edit: as a pre-emptive defence, i realize that people will do incredibly terrible things in their self-interest and that can suck, but that's no different than any other animal or organism, what i think is heartening is the desire to do good. People might do evil to get what they want, but rarely desire to do evil for evil's sake whereas most people desire to do good at least to some degree for its own sake.

Blarg

12-21-2005, 08:49 AM

I think plenty of people like to do evil and enjoy it immensely. But since you can't unmake the world and start over, you just have to deal with them the best you can and try not to succumb to your own worst impulses yourself, and instead try to do things the right way as much as you can, even if it's not always the most comfortable or profitable thing to do.

You may not ever be able to change others, but you can always change yourself. And you don't have to live by anybody's world view but your own, if you're strong enough inside.

tonypaladino

12-21-2005, 08:51 AM

From the responses to the first few replies, it's obvious the OP is just an ass-hole looking for a fight. Don't indulge him

Jdanz

12-21-2005, 08:55 AM

i'm not denying that some people like evil, and i agree with what you've said in your post.

However, from my life expereience i've just noticed that most people like doing good, they get some sort of kick out of it . /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Blarg

12-21-2005, 09:02 AM

I wish I could say the same. I find most people indifferent at best, but I do think I've probably run into an unbalanced sample.

Jdanz

12-21-2005, 09:04 AM

hey i'm not trying to downplay indifference, but the fact that people feel bad when they act like a dick (most of the time) and feel good when they genuinely help someone (most of the time) has to count for something.

12-21-2005, 09:25 AM

Your question is flawed. But if I had to give an answer, no.

4_2_it

12-21-2005, 09:47 AM

Wow, all those words just to say the glass is half empty? Duly noted.

Arnfinn Madsen

12-21-2005, 10:03 AM

The world is not a Happy place, but it is a good place. Life isn't a prescheduled journey organized to make sure YOU are happy all the time. You are given your organs, a couple of parents to look out for you, and after that most of the time it is hard work. Many sad things will happen to you and your surroundings, your wife may get ill, you may lose your leg in a traffic accident, your good friend may die of cancer etc..

BUT, most people live through it. Why? Because the magic moments of life are worth to go through the suffering parts. Waking up a morning by a kiss of your girlfriend, shaking the hand of the old-time friend you never wanted to become enemies with in the first place, seeing your friend wake up from coma, looking into the eyes of a 4-year old smiling child and realize that you created her and made her happy.

When those magical moments happen or whenever you look back at them; you can boil some water, sit down with a delicious cup of tea in your great comfortable chair, open your exciting book about Buddha and realize, that he was a wise man for countering the harsh realities with hope, not resignation.

Blarg

12-21-2005, 10:23 AM

Depends on the person. Many people also feel great when they act like dicks. This possibility is just hardwired into the human character for everyone, and for some people it's a lifelong thing. Many are entirely indifferent to helping anyone. Many don't help anyone enough to know how they might feel about it.

I really think there are just different kinds of people in the world, and plenty of them. There is usually just as much aggression in social situations as there are good things, and that even from people who would never consider themselves aggressive or less than superlative in any way. We're a viciously competitive species, and it's often not enough that we're together, but we must compete; and it's not enough that we win, but someone must lose. We're genetically built to screw each other over, and that's at least as natural as helping each other or giving a damn about each other, if not more so.