call or muck?

[M2d]

stars 30+3 NL tourney. 117 starters; 67 left. I have the second biggest stack at the table and the button. 18 are paid, but the real money doesn't come until 6th or so place.
largest stack has been going all in pre-flop (and stealing the blinds) about once or twice a round. the only times he was called, he showed down rags and sucked out (A-rag off, etc).

Another loose raiser doubles the blinds UTG. This means that his hand is live. Chip leader goes all in. This also means that his hand has not yet been killed. folded around to me on the button, and i look at 10-10. If I win, I'm easily the chip leader. If I lose to the original raiser (whom I have covered)but beat the uber maniac, my stack is below par, but playable (about 1K with 50/100 blinds). Fold or call?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

The problem here is that the loose raiser could have something like KQ, and big stack could have Ax, putting you up against at least 3 overcards. 2nd biggest stack at the table in the middle of the tournament, this is an easy fold.

[slamdunkpro]

To me this is an easy fold. too many opponents that could have too many overcards or painted pairs.

[eMarkM]

If it was just the maniacal chip leader I would probably call. I had a similar situation at a Stars tourney last night. Chip leader (not just table, the whole tourney) kept making oversized preflop raises (like 3K with blinds at 100/200) and when I caught JJ and he raised like 2K, I thought all-in was an easy choice despite the fact I was around 8th in chip position myself and was risking a lot. He called with ATo, so it was the right decision by me (bad call by him, IMHO) even though he hit an A on the flop and knocked me out.

But in this case, you have two players in the pot, not HU. The chip leader isn't open raising with nothing as he might if folded to him, but isolating an all-in with probably a decent hand. I would fold even though you may be ahead of them both. My guess is you folded and found you would have won had you called. I'll guess and say the leader had a lower pair then yours and the all-in had overcards that didn't hit.

[cferejohn]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'his hand is live' (that means something to me in stud, but not much in hold'em). You mean its anything from suited connectors on up?

Anyway, I feel pretty good that I'm ahead of the chip leader (if he had gone all-in, I call in a second). I'm much more worried about UTG. Had he always been raising the minimum, or had he usually been putting in a more reasonable raise of 3-4x BB? If this was out of character for him, I seriously consider mucking, since these minimum raises very often mean AA or KK.

I think its close, and I would lead towards calling in general.

[curtains]

Highly lead towards fold, unless you hvae a really really good reason to call.

[cferejohn]

Having read the other responses, I take it back. I would lean towards folding, but I still don't think calling is as bad as others do. It is a bit of a gamble though, so it may be one of those 'do I think I am one of the better players in the tournament' questions.

[DanS]

Chris,
I think that when Matt referred to the first guy's hand as "live," and the second guy's hand as "not in the muck," he was coyly referring to their raising standards...more specifically, their lack thereof.

Dan

P.S. Matt, have you played the Wednesday Oaks tourney recently? Apparently, the WPT is bringing in some seriously dead money. (No, not me. I was dead money long before the WPT ever aired).

P.P.S. I chopped it up 3 ways with a crazy bastard named William Fields last Wednesday. Ever played with him at the Oaks Sun/Weds tourneys?