Just Starting Out - Any Advice?

[DarrenJG]

Hello folks,

There is a wealth of knowledge on this board and perhaps some experienced players will be willing to share a little with a newbie.

I recently started to make a study of poker. I have been a BJ cardcounter for about 7 years and made decent money at it. It was basically a job through lawschool and beyond. I have good math ability and I am very, very disciplined. I have never had a problem playing properly under stress and avoiding "tilt." As a result of the cardcounting, I also understand, all too well, the swings inherent in this stuff, the idea of expected value, random walk w/ an upward drift, etc. I am a pretty seasoned veteran regarding some gambling concepts, but new to poker.

I recently left a big law firm to pursue some business ventures, so for the first time in ages my time is available and COMPLETELY flexible. The BJ games here in CT are getting tougher to beat and I haven’t had time to keep a small team together. I figure this is the perfect time to try to get really good at poker if at all possible.

On the advice of this forum, I slowly read Small Stakes Hold'em, Lee Jones' book, and Theory of Poker, as time permitted over the last few months. I just started Sklansky's Advanced Players. I’ve dabbled a little to test out the concepts I’ve learned, which I think I probably have a decent handle on. But now seems like the time to dive in and get more serious.

Maybe you can give me a little advice about starting off. I'm wondering what the progression should be like for me. I am willing to put maybe $5,000-6,000 in play, which may make my progression a little different than most newbs – not sure. It sounds like many start with smaller BR’s, and most advice I’ve seen is along that line. It seems that with poker you can get by with a FAR smaller bankroll than with cardcounting, where I needed at least $30,000+ to make real money – the swings could be enormous in BJ. But regardless, I obviously need to start at the low rungs. In fact, I still need to learn the nuts and bolts of bonuses and other basic stuff before I really get started online.

I have decent faith in my ability to do well, if there is a realistic chance of doing so. I heard lots of people say that I couldn't make money counting cards -- but I seemed to disprove them. It sounds like there are lots of experienced players here. What does it take to consistently win? What can a pretty fast learner expect to attain and in what time frame? How much must one stake? Should I just stick with blackjack and forget about this?!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks for any advice. Hopefully, I’ll get to know some of you folks on here and maybe down the road I can return the favor.

Darren

[Maulik]

Well decide what you enjoy playing. The current situation of poker provides plenty of fish in all forms.

If you really like Stud, play that, etc.

As far as Hold'em the most commercialised game; SNGs are popular, limit, NL. Pick what you ENJOY.

Start with a small bankroll and build yourself up. There are so many unique situations in poker, only experience will allow you to thread those waters.

[PJS]

Your background will certainly serve you well. Generally, the bankroll required is between 300-400 big bets (assuming your a winning player). However, as you are new, I would suggest staying in low limits until you get to grips with some poker concepts. However, with your background, I'm sure you'll pick it up sooner than most.

As the above poster said, find one game to focus your attention on for now, as trying to learn too many games at once will not only be confusing, but is potentially harmful as you may start confusing concepts. I recommend starting off with either "limit" or "no limit" hold'em, as these are the games most frequently played today.

The books you have read so far should certainly have you heading in the right directon, although, I would suggest you leave HPFAP until you start moving up in limits. Read Getting Started in Hold'em by Ed Miller, then re-read SSHE (assuming you are going to play limit poker). Also, instead of trying to rush to play higher limits, I would continue with BJ for now while your learning poker, and when you feel you have a firm grasp on poker, you can then make a full transition without starting off in "deep water".

you may find this link helpful that I got from the beginners forum:

http://poker.wikicities.com/wiki/Beginners_FAQ#Books_.26_Software.3F

P.s if you access the link, you will have to scroll to the top of the page for the full table of contents.

PJS

[WhoIam]

A lot of people on these forums can be d*cks to newbies so just don't pay attention to them. Other than that, good luck and I hope to see you around.

[lehighguy]

Play 20,000 hands. Use a starting hand chart if you need it. Then come back and ask about strategy.

There is no substitute for experience.

[ QUOTE ]

I recently left a big law firm to pursue some business ventures, so for the first time in ages my time is available and COMPLETELY flexible.


[/ QUOTE ]

I can't help you get better at poker because I'm a noob myself, but for this comment alone, I am brutally jealous. (as I sit here at 7:00 at night billing my 12th hour of the day) Bah...I'm a cog and you're a free man.

[DarrenJG]

LOL. Damn, actually billing your 12th hr of the day! You're really cranking. Believe me, I feel your pain. Been there, for sure!

[DarrenJG]

Thanks, I appreciate the heads up. I don't mind taking a little [censored] from the veterans. Whatever it takes to improve.

[J_V]

Are you planning on playing online or live? I would recommend online for learning purposes, as you'll be able to get many more hands in a given period of time. My only advice is to find the best players on this forum and take their advice religiously.

[cold_cash]

If you're going to play online get PokerTracker.

[7stud]

1) Playing poker online is illegal if you are a U.S. citizen, so be aware of the legal risks you are taking and the possible adverse affect on your real career that could have.

[ QUOTE ]
however, with your background, I'm sure you'll pick it up sooner than most.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't believe it. Counting BJ is a mechanical process. Playing poker is a lot different.

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to play online get PokerTracker.

[/ QUOTE ]

best advice, ever

[PJS]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Playing poker online is illegal if you are a U.S. citizen, so be aware of the legal risks you are taking and the possible adverse affect on your real career that could have.

[ QUOTE ]
however, with your background, I'm sure you'll pick it up sooner than most.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't believe it. Counting BJ is a mechanical process. Playing poker is a lot different.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I should clarify what I meant. What I was saying is, he should find the initial learning easier than most as he understands bankroll management, variance and odds etc. which is usually the most difficult to try and explain to someone just starting out (as they think the best player wins every time). Also, he is aware of the psychological emotions involved which is again a major bonus over someone just starting out (thinking it's easy). This should allow him to focus on the strategy involved in the game, without being bogged down.

PJS

[Jstyal]

[ QUOTE ]

I recently started to make a study of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Start at the play money tables or pogo.com's Texas Hold 'Em. It's an absolute waste risking your own money at real money tables when you're just starting up at poker. This isn't as simple as BJ were you learn basic strategy then advanced BJ rules/odds and proper bankroll measures/management then grind it out x amount of days. I will estimate that it takes a player just starting out, who is very disciplined and is willing to work hard to improve his game, at least 6 months to become a winner at Texas Hold 'em.

[Jdanz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I recently started to make a study of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Start at the play money tables or pogo.com's Texas Hold 'Em. It's an absolute waste risking your own money at real money tables when you're just starting up at poker. This isn't as simple as BJ were you learn basic strategy then advanced BJ rules/odds and proper bankroll measures/management then grind it out x amount of days. I will estimate that it takes a player just starting out, who is very disciplined and is willing to work hard to improve his game, at least 6 months to become a winner at Texas Hold 'em.

[/ QUOTE ]

To the OP:

The above is wrong, start with real money, if you feel like starting small you can do .02/.04 at stars but real experience is way better then play.

[obsidian]

Playing at play money tables is pretty much worthless. It seems like you have a decent amount of money so I would suggest starting at .5/1. A winning player really only needs about $300-$500 to play at that level so you should be more than fine. Start at a level and move up as your bankroll allows. Try to avoid going bust once you start moving up (be willing to drop back down).

Search the forums as there are plenty of posts about bankroll requirements for varying types & limits of poker. Experience is best way to learn. Get pokertracker and start online. Read these forums and a post hands you are unsure about. Grow a tough skin and be ready to be willing to learn instead of going into defensive mode like many new posters do when people criticize their game. Good luck.

No doubt - it seemed like such a great idea at the time - go to law school, graduate towards the top of the class, grind it out for a few years at an associate at a big firm, make partner, live the good life...

WTF was I thinking!!??

Just to keep this on topic - I agree with the Poker Tracker comments. That and read every hand that gets posted here and really try to put yourself in the poster's position before you read any answers. See how you would have handled i compared to what everyone else says and make sure you understand why they would have played the hand differently.

That's made a huge difference in my game just in the couple months I've been lurking here.

[Sadat X]

Based on your BR and level of gambling experience, I would start at Party 2/4. The games are easy, swings are low and the stakes will mean more to you than at .5/1. If NL is your game, I'd start at Party $100. Once you get some hands under your belt you can gradually move up. Next thing you know you'll be sleeping at night on a giant pile of money, surrounded by many beautiful women. Just like all of us on 2+2 /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[DarrenJG]

"Next thing you know you'll be sleeping at night on a giant pile of money, surrounded by many beautiful women. Just like all of us on 2+2"

Well, of course. Isn't that why we're in this in the first place. LOL. And I hear everyone reaches that stage within 3 months.

[KneeCo]

1) Get PokerTracker
2) Get PokerAce Hud
3) Post hands and reply to other peoples' posted hands
4) You're already studying the game, and your background gives you a good idea of bankroll managment. Learn everything you can about proper table selection and use it wisely.
5) Don't play Party Poker Blackjack /images/graemlins/wink.gif
6) Have fun.

Good luck.