AQs flushdraw misses, bluff?

[MrEngenic]

Villain is a solid player.

Party 2/4

Preflop: Hero is BB with A /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/club.gif
UTG+1 raises, all fold, Hero calls.

Flop:(4.5 sb) J /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls

Turn: (4.25 BB) 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls

River: (6.25 BB) J /images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets


Against which type of players do you try this bluff? Is this a clear check/fold or a clear bet/fold on the river or is it very player dependent?

[imported_smoove]

Isn't this that Cardplayer hand of the day?

[jackdaniels]

He isn't folding this hand. Ever.

Ok, he may fold this if he was on some type of draw, but considering YOU were the one who had the only possible draw, I can't see him having any kind of hand here that he would fold.

[ QUOTE ]
He isn't folding this hand. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. The way this hand was played I can only see villain holding an overpair or something like AJ. An overpair makes a crying call and a J raises you.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

Is there any hand you beat that will call you?

Is there any hand that beats you that is folding? Possibly AK, but that's about it.

[jskills]

You're not getting him to fold. He likely raised you on the flop because he held AJ or KJs. Pot is not huge. Let it go.

[imported_smoove]

Just in case you guys missed this yesterday:

Cardplayer hand (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=4238346&an=0&page=2# Post4238346)

[W. Deranged]

In general, weak-lead bluffs suck.

I was playing $10/$20 at Foxwoods about a month ago when a friend of mine in the game made a weak-lead type play like that against a solid, tight, aggressive local player who saw right through it. She said something like "that weak-lead play is the oldest trick in the book. It never works."

In general, it's true. It just doesn't apply enough pressure. I've taken to calling river weak leads very, very liberally because they are so often missed drawing hands.

[MrEngenic]

Duh I screwed this up. I meant to post it like I was UTG+1 with AK and ask who calls. Do you guys fold AK here if you were UTG+1?

[@bsolute_luck]

i guess it depends on what i think villain has on the flop. if i thought a Jack (even a 7), i don't think i'd bet the turn. we (as villain) obviously don't have A/images/graemlins/club.gifK/images/graemlins/club.gif, so i can only guess we're betting the turn because we put someone on a flush draw. in that case no, i don't fold to the river donk.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
He isn't folding this hand. Ever.

Ok, he may fold this if he was on some type of draw, but considering YOU were the one who had the only possible draw, I can't see him having any kind of hand here that he would fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
There is $190 in the pot. The river is the disappointing J, so you have zero. Do you give up or bluff a bet?

the "answer" in white:
Bet. The top board-card pairing on the turn or river presents a bluffing opportunity to someone who is not the preflop raiser and has shown some strength on the flop. His hand is apt to be tied in with the board-cards. Despite your opponent's preflop and flop raises, he may not have an overpair. He could easily have only A-K or an intermediate pair. Maybe he should call with either of these hands, because there was a flush-draw on the flop, but if he thinks you are a real tight player, he may fold. (Frankly, this type of bluff works better if there was a rainbow flop and you have busted out on a straight-draw.)

On the actual hand, the opponent thought for quite a while, but finally mucked his hand. Penny wise, pound foolish. This is an example of a type of bluff that will not work against certain players, so it helps to know your opponents. It also shows that having a tight image has an upside; bluffs work more often

[/ QUOTE ]

Correction, people that suck at poker will fold this heads up. Anyone who doesn't suck will call you with any pair, and AK.

Betting here, online, has 0 chance of folding a better hand. If he folds, he had something like AT, but I dont' see anyone folding anytime soon.

[MrEngenic]

[ QUOTE ]
Correction, people that suck at poker will fold this heads up

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I would find a fold against passive players with AK or AQ here.

[jackdaniels]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting here, online, has 0 chance of folding a better hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have tried this a few times and encountered the above. I have tried it againt TAG's representing a WA/WB line of play after I saw them use it themselves. Online, in multiple attempts, I have yet to have any success with this line.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Correction, people that suck at poker will fold this heads up

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I would find a fold against passive players with AK or AQ here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Passive player don't bet the river with a hand that is losing to AK/AQ

With the action on this hand, I'm calling with AK everytime. I see a J never, i see a random PP sometimes, or a busted flush draw.

[Jake (The Snake)]

Are you betting the flop like that with any hands here besides flush draws?

[ QUOTE ]
Are you betting the flop like that with any hands here besides flush draws?

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer the c/r with virtually any hand here, especially a flush draw with two discounted overs.

[MrEngenic]

I will probably not bet this flop with anything, this is not my hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think this play is successful for those times when villian is solid and Hero is perceived to be a passive idiot.

We have no indication that opponent will fold this river, as she has bet/raised at every opportunity. I think the only successful bluff on the river here has to be a c/r bluff, which probably still doesn't work incredibly often.

[GHL]

I prefer 3 betting PF and leading the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer 3 betting PF and leading the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a solid player, I don't love 3-betting preflop with this hand and end up OOP postflop.

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer 3 betting PF and leading the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

really? full ring raise from EP- you're probably looking at average, 3-outs. i see no need once it's HU.

[MrEngenic]

This can't be right