88 hand

[Alobar]

I dont have much of a read on villian, mining shows he is 44/8/1.3. BB is like 35 VPIP and tricky and aggresive postflop.


Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

rough session and as a result im second guessing every situation im in. I do wrong here? call river?

[7ontheline]

I generally call this river, but that may be a leak. I see busted draws and lower pairs too often, although the relentless donking is annoying. Wouldn't he let you bet and c/r you somewhere if he had a monster though? Doesn't much seem like the line a made flush or other big hand would take. Monotone boards mess with people's minds though - I'm less sure what bets mean then usually.

[krishanleong]

Wow, I think this is a really bad fold. I mean Ah alone will make up enough of his range to call with.

Krishan

[Victor]

since this guy is a tard i would call down. if he seemed like a competent player then i think it would be a good fold.

I tell you what you did wrong. You have virtually no outs so if you decided to call the flop how do you fold the river with that turn and river card? either you decided the UTG was betting with KQ or AK one heart trying to push you off your hand than of course its an easy call on the river. If you think he has a made hand its an easy fold on the flop. Dont call down and then fold.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
I tell you what you did wrong. You have virtually no outs so if you decided to call the flop how do you fold the river with that turn and river card? either you decided the UTG was betting with KQ or AK one heart trying to push you off your hand than of course its an easy call on the river. If you think he has a made hand its an easy fold on the flop. Dont call down and then fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

hi dangerfish,

your advice is very dangerous. see, its a mistake to fold hands that have 9 outs in pots this big. its also a mistake to fold hands that are ahead a decent amount of time.

[Danenania]

I would raise the flop and call the river. Agree with others that river fold is a big mistake.

[rory]

Don't get why you folded the river.

[StellarWind]

No one's going to answer this because we all hate it and don't know what to do.

This whole hand is linked together. If you had folded the flop I wouldn't criticize. It's going to be an expensive hand to play because of the uncertainty and the player behind you is a major danger. But calling the flop is reasonable too.

After you called the flop two really good things happened: BB folded and you avoided an overcard on the turn. Just by comparison calling the turn looks better than calling the flop.

A feature of this deal is you don't know who has the made hand and who has the draw. I'm sure if you had both Villain wouldn't be pushing his hand. There is a large risk that Villain has both and that means you need a significant overlay to keep playing. 6.5-1 isn't good enough to call the turn strictly as a draw. You need additional pot equity from sometimes having the best hand.

That makes it hard to understand folding the river on a blank. In isolation this may be the correct decision, but the implication is that you don't believe in your hand in which case you should have folded the turn. Stepping back again, to fold the turn after getting so much luck means you should have folded the flop too.

So overall I don't think your play of this hand hangs together.

[rory]

Since he was still around by the river he might as well call getting 8ish to 1 or whatever it was and hope that his opponent had just the Ah. That's what happens when you stick around to the river sometimes, you have to throw that last bet in there and hope this is the one time in seven point one that the guy was trying to bluff you out that makes the river call slightly positive e vee.

[Lmn55d]

I like how you played it up until the river where I would call.

[Catt]

Sometimes I raise the flop; sometimes I fold the flop; sometimes I play it just like you, but I call the river.

[oreogod]

call the river, imo. As far as the play up to the river, Im not really a fan of raising the flop, u get no respect and sometimes 3bet. If I had to raise somewhere Id say the turn depending on the card. But calling down is fine.

[Wynton]

This looks to me like either a raise/fold flop deal. Raising might get us a free card against the unknown villain. Then we can reevaluate whether to call a river bet. If we get 3-bet, I think it's ok to fold.

Also, isn't there some metagame benefit to raising the flop, after we 3-bet pf?

[Alobar]

My reasoning for not raising the flop was that I figured most of the hands the BB will call one with, he will call two, so raising wont do me a lot here, and given im very likely at an equity disadvantage I decide to just call and see what happened.

I guess folding the river was pretty weak, but I just didnt see this guy betting all 3 streets with Ah. Tho given I didnt have much of a read to go on besides stats, thats even one more reason for a call. I suck /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
This looks to me like either a raise/fold flop deal.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then I suggest you plan ahead and decide if you want to cap. Because it's going to come up. Villain either has a strong made hand or a multiple draw and he's going to want to play it fast on this flop. That JT combination is murder facing a tight UTG raise.

I would invest as little money as possible in this hand until I got a sense of who has what.

The more I think about this the more I think Hero should just fold the flop. I think some posters were lulled by the fact that tricky/aggressive BB quietly folded the flop behind us. There is a huge danger of a flop checkraise, of having the second best hand and the second best flush draw, and of being used as a pinball on the big streets after an interesting card hits.

It says a lot about our flop situation that a good player was willing to fold the river after BB folded behind us and we caught two undercard blanks on the big streets.