View Full Version : NYC transit strike is on: Who do you blame?
VarlosZ
12-20-2005, 06:31 AM
The Transit Worker's Union officially went on strike at about 3 AM, shutting down all of New York City's subways and buses.
Edit: The MTA wants to increase the retirement age for new workers from 55 to 62, and require them (new workers) to contribute an additional 1% (to 3%) of their salary to their pension, and 1% to their health insurance. They propose a 9% raise over three years. Average subway/bus operator salary is in the $50K-$60K range.
The Union's nominal demands are lowering the retirement age to 50, and a 24% raise over three years, but those are almost certainly mere negotiating ploys.
The strike is illegal, and striking members face stiff fines.
handsome
12-20-2005, 06:34 AM
This sucks. On a side note: the MTA is run by a bunch of fumbling idiots. NYC subways = horrible service.
Macdaddy Warsaw
12-20-2005, 06:39 AM
Um...I've lived in NYC all my life and have never had a problem with the subway. I think you're crazy/don't live in NYC.
VarlosZ
12-20-2005, 06:50 AM
Transit workers have a hard job, and I don't begrudge them their high wage and job security. However, the MTA's demands would be considered very generous by the standards of the private sector, and the city has to get its finances in order soon, as pension costs will soon be skyrocketing. There are some very necessary evils on the horizon, and small steps such as the MTA is trying to take are some of the mildest imaginable.
The strike is illegal for good reason. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people will not be able to get to school or work, and Christmas shopping -- already a nightmare in this city -- just got a lot harder. Traffic will be a nightmare all over; I hope no one needs an ambulance today.
Let's throw rocks.
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Um...I've lived in NYC all my life and have never had a problem with the subway. I think you're crazy/don't live in NYC.
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same here... great service considering the fact theres like 7 mil riding a day here
Paluka
12-20-2005, 06:54 AM
I have found that people really hate the MTA and claim the subway service sucks, but I'm not sure why.
Hopefully, I'll be able to get a ride to work at the carpool meeting point in my hood.
handsome
12-20-2005, 07:12 AM
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Um...I've lived in NYC all my life and have never had a problem with the subway. I think you're crazy/don't live in NYC.
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I took the subway every school day of the year for four years during high school, and took it 5-10x a day for the entire summer last year. IMHO, the delays are too frequent and unbearable. If you have waited on a subway platform for 2+ hours in 110 degree hot & humid conditions, you would know what I mean.
Macdaddy Warsaw
12-20-2005, 07:15 AM
That's the thing. In 10 years of taking the subway, I've never waited that long (I doubt I've even waited more than an hour). There's always another way, either another line, or a taxi, or your feet. Given the immense burden subways and buses carry, they perform remarkably well.
PS: What the hell are you doing that requires taking the subway ten times a day?
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Transit workers have a hard job
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Maybe some do, but I think as a general statement I disagree.
VarlosZ
12-20-2005, 07:19 AM
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I took the subway every school day of the year for four years during high school, and took it 5-10x a day for the entire summer last year. IMHO, the delays are too frequent and unbearable. If you have waited on a subway platform for 2+ hours in 110 degree hot & humid conditions, you would know what I mean.
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I also took the subway to school every day. I think they do a fine job considering that it's by far the largest subway system in the world. That said, a lot depends on what lines you use. If you commute with the 4-5-6 trains, you're probably happy. If you schlep into Manhattan from Bay Ridge on the N-R trains (stands for "Never Running"), you might feel differently.
VarlosZ
12-20-2005, 07:23 AM
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Transit workers have a hard job
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Maybe some do, but I think as a general statement I disagree.
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You don't think driving a bus or riding in underground tunnels for 8 hours at a time is more taxing than, say, working in an office?
Lots of jobs are tougher, but lots of jobs are easier, too. But whatever; perhaps a better way of phrasing it is that they work hard.
dblgutshot
12-20-2005, 07:26 AM
It's easy to take the transit service for granted in a large city. Completely shut down is just nuts.
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You don't think driving a bus or riding in underground tunnels for 8 hours at a time is more taxing than, say, working in an office?
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Driving a bus is, it's probably one of the worst jobs I can think of. Driving (or whatever the proper verb is) a subway doesn't seem so bad. I'm sure it sucks, but most jobs that require little education suck. That doesn't make it hard though, just bad. You should also clarify what type of office, but I guess this gets the point across.
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Lots of jobs are tougher, but lots of jobs are easier, too. But whatever; perhaps a better way of phrasing it is that they work hard.
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I'm thinking that booth guy has got one of the easiest jobs in the world. It may be one of the most boring, but it's easy as hell. My guess would be that there's more of them than anyone else, but that could be way off.
Bluffoon
12-20-2005, 07:29 AM
No option for both. Both sides sound inflexible. Three percent a year is not overly generous and in this day and age it is not unreasonable to expect employees to contibute towards what are probably kickass pension and health benefits. It sounds like there is room for compromise.
Macdaddy Warsaw
12-20-2005, 07:30 AM
I would imagine the easiest job is sitting in "the booth". I would imagine even driving a train is more difficult than you would imagine thanks to the threat of jumpers.
What I'm saying is that it probably IS difficult, but their salary is commensurate (probably more than commensurate) with the job's difficulty.
A pro-union/strike piece (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/375722p-319283c.html).
VarlosZ
12-20-2005, 08:01 AM
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Driving (or whatever the proper verb is) a subway doesn't seem so bad. I'm sure it sucks, but most jobs that require little education suck. That doesn't make it hard though, just bad.
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It would seem to me that doing something bad for 30 years is a lot harder than doing something hard, but not bad (maybe construction work? I have no idea.).
If something is hard and bad, well . . . let's just just say that sanitation workers deserve every penny they get and then some.
tonypaladino
12-20-2005, 08:04 AM
1. OP is incorrect about the MTA offer, the latest offer is allowing the retirement age to remain at 55.
2. While some jobs are hard and skilled (Bus Operators, Track Workers), A vast majority of MTA employees (Train Operators/Conductors, Cleaners, Token Clerks) are unskilled workers.
3. handsome is retarted, the subway service is outstanding
4. The only reason for the strike is that Roger Toussaint is on a power trip as big as his fat ass. The majority of union members don't want to strike and international TWU is distancing itself from Local 100.
VarlosZ
12-20-2005, 08:04 AM
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A pro-union/strike piece (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/375722p-319283c.html).
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The writer makes the valid point that the MTA is not run by angels, and that some working conditions could be improved. However, that surplus he talks about is very temporary, and pretending that it won't be a huge deficit within a year is a quick path to financial ruin.
whiskeytown
12-20-2005, 08:12 AM
not to turn the forum political, but I thought even the most basic service person in NYC had to have a higher wage just to survive in the city.
But the union can't be having an illegal strike - they're liable to get cracked REAL fast...Look at what happened after the Air Traffic Controller's strike.
I don't envy you guys...wonder how the folks I know in Jeresy are gonna end up doing - lots of carpooling, I guess.
RB
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wonder what TT is gonna end up doing - he's gotta get across that river.
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PATH is still running.
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Driving (or whatever the proper verb is) a subway doesn't seem so bad. I'm sure it sucks, but most jobs that require little education suck. That doesn't make it hard though, just bad.
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It would seem to me that doing something bad for 30 years is a lot harder than doing something hard, but not bad (maybe construction work? I have no idea.).
If something is hard and bad, well . . . let's just just say that sanitation workers deserve every penny they get and then some.
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You get rewarded (paid in premium) for doing hard work, not bad work. There is a low supply of people that can do hard work that requires complex skills. I would guess that there is HUGE supply of people that would do all the sh!t jobs the MTA wants for 50k/year + benefits. To find these people, they wouldn't even have to leave the train stations.
tonypaladino
12-20-2005, 08:25 AM
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A pro-union/strike piece (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/375722p-319283c.html).
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Errol Lewis is a complete asshat. I'm not surprised he would take the TWU's side.
handsome
12-20-2005, 08:40 AM
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3. handsome is retarted, the subway service is outstanding
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Thanks. And I still stand by my statement that the MTA sucks balls.
IndieMatty
12-20-2005, 09:33 AM
The subway is great, and the few encounteres I have had with workers have been positive. Also, Toussaint rocks.
This is sort of awesome, I'm early for work for the first time ever.
I'm working from home.
Brain
12-20-2005, 09:41 AM
I'm in Jersey and took the rest of the week off, but I just wanted to jump in and say good luck to you guys getting around until this thing is over.
JordanIB
12-20-2005, 09:45 AM
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3. handsome is retarted, the subway service is outstanding
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Thanks. And I still stand by my statement that the MTA sucks balls.
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And you would still be wrong, as far as the service of the transit system goes.
Considering the demands put on it, NYC Transit is probably the most efficient people-mover in the country, if not the world.
And anyone who is dumb enough to stand in a subway station in 110-degree heat for 2 hours...well, let's just say I don't value their thinking a whole lot.
Riverman
12-20-2005, 09:53 AM
The union saying that the surplus is relevant is ridiculous. Are they going to give back part of their salary in future years if MTA starts running defecits?
This really pisses me off. Generally speaking we are talking about jobs that are pretty easy, pay well, and have superb benefits. STFU and go back to work.
Brain
12-20-2005, 09:53 AM
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The subway is great, and the few encounteres I have had with workers have been positive. Also, Toussaint rocks.
This is sort of awesome, I'm early for work for the first time ever.
I'm working from home.
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If I did that, I'm sure I could still find a way to be late. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
JordanIB
12-20-2005, 09:55 AM
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The union saying that the surplus is relevant is ridiculous. Are they going to give back part of their salary in future years if MTA starts running defecits?
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I've been saying this verbatim for the last week.
tonypaladino
12-20-2005, 10:08 AM
N.Y. Transit Union Lacks Assets to Support Strikers (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aK8FKux3I9kM&refer=top_world _news)
cokehead
12-20-2005, 10:27 AM
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Average subway/bus operator salary is in the $50K-$60K range.
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Base starting salary for a NYC public school teacher with a BA is $39K. something doesn't seem right...
ononimo
12-20-2005, 10:33 AM
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This sucks. On a side note: the MTA is run by a bunch of fumbling idiots. NYC subways = horrible service.
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name a more reliable mass transit system in America that is as extensive as NYC's and runs 24/7/365 (strike notwithstanding) ... oh, that's right: there is none.
the MTA organization itself might suck but our subways and buses most certainly do not.
tonypaladino
12-20-2005, 10:38 AM
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Average subway/bus operator salary is in the $50K-$60K range.
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Base starting salary for a NYC public school teacher with a BA is $39K. something doesn't seem right...
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And staring for an NYPD officer is $25k.
cokehead
12-20-2005, 10:42 AM
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This sucks. On a side note: the MTA is run by a bunch of fumbling idiots. NYC subways = horrible service.
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name a more reliable mass transit system in America that is as extensive as NYC's and runs 24/7/365 (strike notwithstanding) ... oh, that's right: there is none.
the MTA organization itself might suck but our subways and buses most certainly do not.
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If you expanded your criteria to a world wide subway system, then NYC's ain't that great anymore. Brazil for example has some very reliable systems that are actually clean too. Many places in europe too. Its always amusing when foreigners from poor countries come to NYC and are disgusted by the subways...
Paluka
12-20-2005, 10:44 AM
Today was remarkly easy for me. I walked 10 blocks to the car pool staging point in Park Slope. I got in some guy's car who was taking the Battery Tunnel. This was at 6:40 or so. There was zero traffic, and just before 7 he dropped me off on the west side highway. So I got to work 1.5 hours early.
I think the retirement age is the most absurd part of the union demands. 55 was a reasonable age to retire in 1965, not in 2005.
JordanIB
12-20-2005, 10:49 AM
Yeah, similar experience on the traffic, at least via word-of-mouth. Got a ride today up to White Plains from a friend on the UWS. He said he's never seen so few cars on his streets when leaving int he morning, and never gotten onto the west side highway so quickly.
Bluffoon
12-20-2005, 10:50 AM
No problems commuting from Jersey. NJ Transit to Penn Station and I walked the 25 blocks to my office (as I usually do). I'm the only one here though.
20 block walk to work. I decided to walk up 5th Ave because the sidewalks are wider. Turns out Madison is closed to traffic and people are walking in the street. D'oh.
Everyone from Staten Island made it in at the asscrack of dawn, but no real horror stories yet.
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Turns out Madison is closed to traffic and people are walking in the street. D'oh.
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Haha, and you can see Madison from your window, right?
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Turns out Madison is closed to traffic and people are walking in the street. D'oh.
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Haha, and you can see Madison from your window, right?
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Yes, both. /images/graemlins/frown.gif
ononimo
12-20-2005, 11:12 AM
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This sucks. On a side note: the MTA is run by a bunch of fumbling idiots. NYC subways = horrible service.
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name a more reliable mass transit system in America that is as extensive as NYC's and runs 24/7/365 (strike notwithstanding) ... oh, that's right: there is none.
the MTA organization itself might suck but our subways and buses most certainly do not.
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If you expanded your criteria to a world wide subway system, then NYC's ain't that great anymore. Brazil for example has some very reliable systems that are actually clean too. Many places in europe too. Its always amusing when foreigners from poor countries come to NYC and are disgusted by the subways...
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my challenge was specifically limited to the US because that was the comparison that was most relevant. since i live here and not overseas, being the best in the US is good enough for me.
i'm also sure that those foreigners from poor countries would likely trade their country's standard of living for ours, subways notwithstanding.
mrkilla
12-20-2005, 12:09 PM
Union to the MTA : "Were gonna strike!"
MTA to Union : " Are you threating me?!I am the great cornholio!! "
Union to the MTA : "We need a living wage !!"
MTA to Union : " You need TP for your bunghole?"
Sightless
12-20-2005, 12:12 PM
God damn HIPPIES! Why couldn't they wait one day! I have a final today and now it has been rescheduled for the first day untill the strike it's over andI will forget everythign by then!
mrkilla
12-20-2005, 12:29 PM
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Average subway/bus operator salary is in the $50K-$60K range.
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Base starting salary for a NYC public school teacher with a BA is $39K. something doesn't seem right...
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YOur comparing an Average to a start salary. Average Salary for a Teacher is between 50-60 as well. NYPD police officers will earn $75,000 on average, after 5 1/2 years of service. Thats from there websites
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God damn HIPPIES! Why couldn't they wait one day! I have a final today and now it has been rescheduled for the first day untill the strike it's over andI will forget everythign by then!
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Where do you go to school?
Sightless
12-20-2005, 12:35 PM
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God damn HIPPIES! Why couldn't they wait one day! I have a final today and now it has been rescheduled for the first day untill the strike it's over andI will forget everythign by then!
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Where do you go to school?
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CUNY
TheNoodleMan
12-20-2005, 12:44 PM
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Average subway/bus operator salary is in the $50K-$60K range.
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Base starting salary for a NYC public school teacher with a BA is $39K. something doesn't seem right...
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And staring for an NYPD officer is $25k.
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Yeah but people want to be teachers and police officers. Those are professions that people routinely say that it isn't about the money, no transit worker would ever say that .
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I think they do a fine job considering that it's by far the largest subway system in the world.
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Do they do this in New York? (http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/334.html)
pokerdirty
12-20-2005, 01:11 PM
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This sucks. On a side note: the MTA is run by a bunch of fumbling idiots. NYC subways = horrible service.
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name a more reliable mass transit system in America that is as extensive as NYC's and runs 24/7/365 (strike notwithstanding) ... oh, that's right: there is none.
the MTA organization itself might suck but our subways and buses most certainly do not.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you expanded your criteria to a world wide subway system, then NYC's ain't that great anymore. Brazil for example has some very reliable systems that are actually clean too. Many places in europe too. Its always amusing when foreigners from poor countries come to NYC and are disgusted by the subways...
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my challenge was specifically limited to the US because that was the comparison that was most relevant. since i live here and not overseas, being the best in the US is good enough for me.
i'm also sure that those foreigners from poor countries would likely trade their country's standard of living for ours, subways notwithstanding.
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you guys are all idiots.
Sucked for me
LIRR train became a local and after i pulled into the station i was met by 20 mins of ppl traffic to get out of penn. Then walked across town to the PATH which took me into jersey before dropping me off back in NYC at teh World trade center then walked 10 mins to the WFC 3hrs:20mins
Duffman
12-20-2005, 01:30 PM
My dad is pissed. He's been working in the subways for 10+ years and he absolutely hates the union. For the past week conversations at dinner consisted of bashing the union, hoping they don't go on strike, and complaining about the phone messages Roger Toussant has been leaving us.
I don't understand the benefit of this strike at all. Everyone's getting fined 2 days pay for every day off work, and the union is getting fined 100k/day(I think). What's the point? Obviously you're not getting your contract.
jstnrgrs
12-20-2005, 01:34 PM
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I took the subway every school day of the year for four years during high school, and took it 5-10x a day for the entire summer last year. IMHO, the delays are too frequent and unbearable. If you have waited on a subway platform for 2+ hours in 110 degree hot & humid conditions, you would know what I mean.
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I also took the subway to school every day. I think they do a fine job considering that it's by far the largest subway system in the world. That said, a lot depends on what lines you use. If you commute with the 4-5-6 trains, you're probably happy. If you schlep into Manhattan from Bay Ridge on the N-R trains (stands for "Never Running"), you might feel differently.
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A few years ago, I spent a summer living in NYC, and I took the R train every day. I never had a problem. The NYC subway is great. Everyone who is complaining should try spending some time in one of our many cities that have almost no public transit system.
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