Play from the blinds: T6s

[Scuba Chuck]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

Button (t1970)
SB (t885) <font color="white"> 8d 4s </font>
Hero (t715)
UTG (t775)
MP1 (t2122)
MP2 (t935)
CO (t598)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t60) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t50</font>, SB calls t50.

Turn: (t160) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t700</font>, Hero calls t485 (All-In).

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

Button (t1970)
SB (t885) <font color="white"> 8d 4s </font>
Hero (t715)
UTG (t775)
MP1 (t2122)
MP2 (t935)
CO (t598)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t60) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t50</font>, SB calls t50.

Turn: (t160) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t700</font>, Hero calls t485 (All-In).

[/ QUOTE ]

So...you just got stacked with T6 on lvl 2 when you made 1 pair?

[The Yugoslavian]

Scuba,

Thought about a fold at any point? Like after you know you were behind?

Yugoslav

[splashpot]

Scuba, this is the kind of hand where if I was sitting at that table, I'd make a note of how big an idiot that guy(you) is.

You know better than this.

[Taraz]

What was the thought process behind your play here? Even if he's bluffing, you can't be that far ahead.

[tigerite]

I'm not even betting that flop. It's an absolutely horrendous one for T6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Do I really have to say those three words again..

The question is: what hand worse than your's flat calls your flop bet and then raises you on the turn?

You also got no info PF... the way I see this, I think you're anywhere from behind to uber-behind.

[pergesu]

A flop bet isn't horrible, he'll fold a lot of the time. But once he calls you really ought to shut down. Continuing with the hand ought to be a clear case of reverse implied odds (which you happily accepted /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

This is donktastic

[kevstreet]

[ QUOTE ]
The question is: what hand worse than your's flat calls your flop bet and then raises you on the turn?


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif but it's a stretch. And for the record, I shut it down after the turn.

[GtrHtr]

Reverse Implied Odds!!! Reverse Implied Odds!!! Check/fold the turn.

That being said, I think he's full of crap with that donk turn bet. He's prolly got an 8 of some kind. Your turn bet, which is ill advised, pretty much commits you to the pot. I'd call as well.

Disclaimer. If you keep doing this, you will lose lots and lots of money in the long run.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not even betting that flop. It's an absolutely horrendous one for T6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Do I really have to say those three words again..

[/ QUOTE ]

Heads up with position? Scary board that you actually have a piece of? No bet?

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not even betting that flop. It's an absolutely horrendous one for T6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Do I really have to say those three words again..

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not even betting that flop. It's an absolutely horrendous one for T6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Do I really have to say those three words again..

[/ QUOTE ]

With the blinds at 15/30, this is an instacall.

[tigerite]

What's an instacall? I'm not talking about preflop, I'm talking about betting the flop.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not even betting that flop. It's an absolutely horrendous one for T6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Do I really have to say those three words again..

[/ QUOTE ]

With the blinds at 15/30, this is an instacall.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh??? He got a free play in the BB.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not even betting that flop. It's an absolutely horrendous one for T6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Do I really have to say those three words again..

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

As I already posted, I'm suprised at this. Surely this flop is just as scary for him as it is you. We have top pair and position. Roughly half the time he has neither a heart nor a T, which makes it tough to call the flop bet. So I toss out a bet ~40, and see what he does. If he calls, I'm definitely not betting the turn.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not even betting that flop. It's an absolutely horrendous one for T6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Do I really have to say those three words again..

[/ QUOTE ]

With the blinds at 15/30, this is an instacall.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh??? He got a free play in the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was joking. nm

[tigerite]

The thing is, again, once he calls you lose control of the hand. He is now free to fold when he doesn't improve and isn't ahead, and make life very difficult for you (if he plays it properly) on the turn and river if he is ahead. Even if he has a draw here only, you'll be checking the turn giving him infinite odds to hit any draw he might be on. And of course when say the 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif falls on the river.. what are you going to do? It's a classic case of reverse implied odds. Even a 9 is going to be horrible to play - what if he has a jack? Maybe he already has the flush? Are you comfortable to play for more chips if you "improve"? So many difficult questions and it's just going to be an extremely hard hand to play for profit, even with position, with such a co-ordinated board on future streets - even if you are ahead right now.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
The thing is, again, once he calls you lose control of the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once that flop comes, you lose control of the hand. Are you calling any turn bets if you check the flop? wuwei's point - and it's one I agree with - is that this is a fine spot to go ahead and try to take the pot on a scary looking board. I think having a weak T is immaterial, as I don't intend to showdown on this board. That said, I think Scuba's T has more chance to be good than some people are giving him. I can definitely see the naked A /images/graemlins/heart.gif playing this way.

[kevstreet]

C'mon Scuba, how'd the hand play out? Although we're not results oriented, I'm curious.

[adanthar]

You can bet if you want and you have the right idea, namely that your hand has slightly, but not much more, value to showdown on this board than 32o* and if you bet one you should probably bet the other.

I don't bet because this is a situation where I think I'll often have to do things like check turn/call river blanks if called and there are reverse implied odds written all over this hand. I'd give it a shot with more chips, though, and I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that; it's just not my play style.

However, Scuba is betting because he has top pair and a gutshot. That's wrong, IMO.

*not because it's equal to 32o, but because vs. hands that want to see a showdown enough to continue, well, basically, see turn action.

Although I might chicken out, I think this is a pretty good call. What hand that is better than top pair plays this way (check/call open push)? Is anyone slowplaying anything huge knowing that a heart will ruin their action or their hand? Would the flopped nut flush really try to blow hero off his hand when he hasn't shown any real strength, or would he try to extract value? Also, the turn can't change anything, and his open push looks a lot like a flush draw that whiffed the turn. I wouldn't be surprised to see a naked A/images/graemlins/heart.gif often here. People on this board sometimes underestimate the alternate reality that occurs in SB/BB confrontations at the lower levels.... Some people take the "be aggressive HU" maxim and use it as an excuse for outrageous bluffs. I don't know.... I think Scuba's hand is good over 1/2 to 2/3rds the time here. That said, when you get stacked with top pair, nonsense kicker it's embarrassing. Against some SBs, however, I think I would make his call often given the action. If he does have the A/images/graemlins/heart.gif alone, you are far ahead -- 3 to 1 favorite -- nice odds to nearly double up early.

[wizard]

I expect we will hear that Scuba had a great read on the guy and called with a winner. How about it Scuba?

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
C'mon Scuba, how'd the hand play out? Although we're not results oriented, I'm curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain had 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif
No /images/graemlins/heart.gifs