Can't stop the spew. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Eeegah

12-20-2005, 03:28 AM

Playing nanos right now since I'm just keeping my brain occupied while doing other mind-numbing tasks. I've been fairly cold decked for the session and haven't won a showdown in 30 hands here, but that of course doesn't matter.

Guy on my immediate left (MP3) has 3bet me preflop with 66, has spent the last 45 minutes talking with some other guy about bass fishing and won't shut the hell up. Villain is a bit fishier than most fish, around 60/0/.6 over only 30 hands.

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, UTG+1 (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero...

You know that continuation bet thingy? I suck at it, yeah. It's a good thing Hold 'Em isn't a 50 street game or I'd be broke. Where do I give it up here? Also, is the raise here good with an early poster, despite the somewhat loose 3-better yet to act?

cold_cash

12-20-2005, 03:52 AM

I like the pre-flop play but that flop obviosly sucks for you.

Flop bet, okay.

The turn is a tricky dick. If the CO is loose and awful you might have a ten-outer, or you might actually be winning. Still, I think the chances of being ahead here are remote.

I think that last part swings this to a check for me. I'm guessing this guy might check the turn through w/ a 4 or a hand like 66, which would be nice, but if he bets you're going to have to play poker.

I would likely fold against this guy because if he does bet I'd say you only have 4-outs.

Don't put any more money in on the river. He'll never fold a worse hand, and he won't bluff bet a missed gut-shot, so you'll win anyway.

Eeegah

12-20-2005, 03:58 AM

Here's another hand just now, same table. Not too many hands on the villain (read: ten), but he also won't shut up about bass fishing. The preflop is a tad loose but I think it's okay 8 handed. Obviously I was going for a c/r on the flop and whiffed--would betting out for proteciton and hoping the PFR raises a better plan, or just go for value? Where do you slow down?

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

River: (12.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16.25 BB

milesdyson

12-20-2005, 04:01 AM

check call the river. he usually either has QQ, 99, or a slowplayed AA/KK/AQ when he caps the turn, and the turn improves AA/AQ to beat us.

Eeegah

12-20-2005, 04:05 AM

I don't think I've ever seen anyone raise preflop then check the flop w/ AA/KK as a slowplay. Unimproved at any rate.

milesdyson

12-20-2005, 04:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I've ever seen anyone raise preflop then check the flop w/ AA/KK as a slowplay.

[/ QUOTE ]
weird

cold_cash

12-20-2005, 04:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I've ever seen anyone raise preflop then check the flop w/ AA/KK as a slowplay. Unimproved at any rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

My first guess would be QQ.
Second, 99.
Third, KK.
Fourth, AA.

I would also like to bet/3-bet this flop, or maybe stop and go.

@bsolute_luck

12-20-2005, 08:37 AM

hand #1: after he calls the flop bet, in this small pot, i usually check/fold the turn UI. at best you have ~5.5 outs discounting the K for the times he has some weak Ace.

hand #2: no way i'm leading that river and if i am it is to fold to a raise. he's gone nuts after checking the flop? looks like QQ, but on the river you're only ahead of KK, so i just check/call at best though check/folding has crossed my mind.

Eeegah

12-20-2005, 01:33 PM

Results:

Hand 1 I bet the river like a moron and was called by Queen Crap. Deserved that one.

Hand 2 the guy had...55. That's what I get for not protecting my hand am i rite

Raising low pocket pairs was a common thing last night for all the folk who were chatting about bass fishing for some reason. Pity the guy left soon after so I couldn't get my money back. Finished well ahead at the table anyway, but it's .10/.20 so who cares /images/graemlins/cool.gif

12-20-2005, 02:27 PM

Second hand you were doomed from the deal. Villian raised with a low pp pre flop and probably isn't going away for 17:1 odds if you bet out.

Eeegah

12-20-2005, 04:17 PM

He'd get 9.5:1 dude

It was tongue in cheek anyway seeing as nailing a 2-outer with a low PP isn't exactly what one would expect.

12-20-2005, 05:17 PM

Small pot, wouldnt waste much with it. It check the river.

Baloosh

12-20-2005, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Second hand you were doomed from the deal. Villian raised with a low pp pre flop and probably isn't going away for 17:1 odds if you bet out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Giving opponents ny finite odds is better than giving them infinite odds.

In theory, anyway.

robertsonjohn

12-20-2005, 05:46 PM

In the second hand, why would you check the flop? With 2 diamonds on the board, don't you want to have him raise you and push out the other two (or at least pay 2 bets for their draw)? Plus, if he doesn't raise, you have more information about his hand and can now assume that a three on the turn won't counterfeit your 2 pair). Assuming he's aggressive (and he must be considering he raises 55 PF with 2 limpers ahead) and assuming he doesn't hit his 2-outer on the turn (which doesn't quite work this hand), you can just call his raise on the flop and then check raise him on the turn which nets you about the same amount of money as your flop check raise, but also protects you against the flush.

Eeegah

12-20-2005, 06:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In the second hand, why would you check the flop? With 2 diamonds on the board, don't you want to have him raise you and push out the other two (or at least pay 2 bets for their draw)? Plus, if he doesn't raise, you have more information about his hand and can now assume that a three on the turn won't counterfeit your 2 pair). Assuming he's aggressive (and he must be considering he raises 55 PF with 2 limpers ahead) and assuming he doesn't hit his 2-outer on the turn (which doesn't quite work this hand), you can just call his raise on the flop and then check raise him on the turn which nets you about the same amount of money as your flop check raise, but also protects you against the flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

What draw? Who here is on a draw? Just because there are two diamonds on the flop means someone has a draw--in fact there's only about 25-30% chance that anyone has two diamonds. If there is someone with a flush draw, why would checkraising the turn "protect" me from it--are they going to fold or somehow not have enough outs? By my quickie Stove I have 65% equity vs two loose opponents and a raiser with a respectible range (though probably more now that I know what he has), and a preflop raiser immediately after me who I can use to trap the field--if this isn't a perfect opportunity for a flop c/r then I don't know what is (disclaimer: I may not know what is). Also, if he does go to war I'd (hopefully) have the sense to slow down before it starts costing me more of the big bets.

Buccaneer

12-20-2005, 07:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You know that continuation bet thingy? I suck at it, yeah. It's a good thing Hold 'Em isn't a 50 street game or I'd be broke. Where do I give it up here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets talk about this continuation thing. For me it is like an itchy hemorroid that I can not scratch enough to make the itch go away. When is the best time to scratch this puppy and when do we just suffer through the flop? I find that I spew the worst with this play that I wish I had never heard about.

I understand a continuation bet as a bet you make when you miss the flop but want to represent that it hit you and your hand is going according to plan hense the name continuation bet. When do you want to use it? It is very expensive for me because I miss the flop, bet the flop, miss the turn too and then if I bet again I have a toliet hand and if I check I show weakness and someone bets into me.

Obviously I am over using this play in the wrong spots. When and how is it appropriate?

cold_cash

12-20-2005, 07:22 PM

Situation 1:

Full table, folded to you on the button.

You raise A/images/graemlins/club.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif

Both blinds call.

3 players.

Flop: K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to you.

Situation 2:

4 limpers, you raise A/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif in the cutoff seat, Button folds, blinds and limpers call.

7 players.

Flop: K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to you.