Queens facing extreme heat - stars 45k

New to table, this is my 7th hand and the first time I put chips in. MP3 is fabsoul, if that makes a difference.

Is this a pretty standard laydown? It was hard to see what I could be up against that I beat except maybe AK and JJ, and it'd have to be JJ from the limp/caller and AK from MP3.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t26140)
SB (t25489)
BB (t70054)
UTG (t9284)
UTG+1 (t17537)
MP1 (t59085)
MP2 (t13925)
MP3 (t51935)
Hero (t58592)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls t1200, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to t4800</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t16000</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls t14800, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to t51860</font>, Hero

[XXXNoahXXX]

Yeah, you'd have to put them squarely on those two hands or possibly both on AK, but it just seems too likely that you're beat here. I'm not even sure who I should be more frightened by, and when thats the case, this has gotta be a laydown and save the rest of your chips.

I'm going to fold this. I don't think villain would do this with JJ. He could very well have AK but even then it's a gamble. He's obviously confident enough in his hand to stick it all in after you re-raised. He plays somewhat tight, right?

[adanthar]

I, like, never worry about the caller when he's unknown, because he falls into one of three categories ('tricky/really weird', 'total donkey with AK/JJ', 'turbodonkey') and 2.5 of those are good for you.

MP3 is the big question. I don't know fabsoul at all but if he is good, this is AA-KK, AK. Figure out your odds and go from there.

[mic_check12]

he's very good, this is a fold

[XXXNoahXXX]

Pretend you are MP1 and you decide to limp AA/KK, when there is a raise and a healthy reraise in front of you, is it more profitable to go all-in right there or do you want the initial raiser to come along for the flop as well. I personally don't think its smart, but I've seen tricky players do just as MP1 did with AA and just wait for the flop or the possibility of MP3 pushing preflop. I'm not advocating it, just saying that you cannot totally discount MP1 from your equations of likelihood of AA/KK.

[ansky451]

[ QUOTE ]
MP3 is the big question. I don't know fabsoul at all but if he is good, this is AA-KK, AK. Figure out your odds and go from there.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't think we will see AK here very often at all.

[Roman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MP3 is the big question. I don't know fabsoul at all but if he is good, this is AA-KK, AK. Figure out your odds and go from there.

[/ QUOTE ]


I don't think we will see AK here very often at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do. MP wont do that with AK always, but will quite often. That said, this is a fold.

As it turns out, both players in the hand had AK. I was stunned that each would choose to play AK in this fashion. Clearly the limp/call/call with AK is poor play, but what of the push with AK in that spot? That just strikes me as... I dunno. Blah.

I don't see any real fold equity in the push, and I see zero circumstances in which AK is a favorite. At most he's hoping for JJ or QQ, but it's quite likely he's pushing into a 25/75 situation or worse.

Or am I off base in this analysis?

[gumpzilla]

Yeah, I think you can definitely fold these queens. The guy who still might call behind you is particularly unappetizing, and after this action I think it's pretty rare that KK and/or AA isn't lurking somewhere out there.