embarrassed to show this hand... [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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12-19-2005, 10:54 PM

well i guess the hand kinda plays itself out.... i'm not the GREATEST at the pot odds stuff.... but was i getting good enough odds here? i was getting 3-1 preflop and then like 4-1 on the flop to hit my flush..... part of me hates myself for getting involved in this hand preflop but another part of me thinks it was decent............ thoughts?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($103.30)
CO ($185.52)
Button ($70.23)
SB ($44.41)
BB ($59.32)
UTG ($50)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50. UTG posts a blind of $1.
UTG (poster) checks, Hero raises to $3, CO calls $3, Button raises to $7, 1 fold, BB calls $6, UTG folds, Hero calls $4, CO raises to $11, Button calls $4, BB calls $4, Hero calls $4.

Flop: ($45.50) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB bets $10, Hero calls $10, CO calls $10, Button calls $59.23 (All-In), BB calls $38.32 (All-In), Hero calls $49.23, CO folds.

Turn: ($222.28) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($222.28) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $222.28
Main Pot: $200.46, between Hero, Button and BB.
Pot 2: $21.82, between Hero and Button.

Maulik

12-19-2005, 10:56 PM

12-19-2005, 10:57 PM

i'm not sure... i was playing on tilt when it started and i feel like i coulda saved that money if i just wouldn't have called preflop... but it was tempting... there was a lot of money going into the pot

Maulik

12-19-2005, 10:59 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
well i guess the hand kinda plays itself out.... i'm not the GREATEST at the pot odds stuff.... but was i getting good enough odds here? i was getting 3-1 preflop and then like 4-1 on the flop to hit my flush..... part of me hates myself for getting involved in this hand preflop but another part of me thinks it was decent............ thoughts?

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Specifically why don't you like it.

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i'm not sure... i was playing on tilt when it started and i feel like i coulda saved that money if i just wouldn't have called preflop... but it was tempting... there was a lot of money going into the pot

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You aren't drawing to the nuts against two all-ins.

poboy

12-19-2005, 11:08 PM

Looks fine to me, +EV but also high variance. Once you've raised pf(which is perfectly reasonable) you're getting fantastic odds every step of the way. You're opponents played horribly by pricing you in, and it nearly cost them their stacks. JMO

4_2_it

12-19-2005, 11:10 PM

Higher risk, higher reward. Definitely not a poor play. The only thing you could have done differently is fold pre-flop, but I like mixing it up with 56 or 67 soooted once in a while also (I usually see the same results).

Maulik

12-19-2005, 11:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Looks fine to me, +EV but also high variance. Once you've raised pf(which is perfectly reasonable) you're getting fantastic odds every step of the way. You're opponents played horribly by pricing you in, and it nearly cost them their stacks. JMO

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What hands are you putting the villain's on?

BB is on a flush draw, Button has pair/2pair/ straight. I don't want to be drawing to the six high flush here.

4_2_it

12-19-2005, 11:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks fine to me, +EV but also high variance. Once you've raised pf(which is perfectly reasonable) you're getting fantastic odds every step of the way. You're opponents played horribly by pricing you in, and it nearly cost them their stacks. JMO

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What hands are you putting the villain's on?

BB is on a flush draw, Button has pair/2pair/ straight. I don't want to be drawing to the six high flush here.

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BB range is much wider than A /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif. I think both villians have made hands. One a set, another two pr or a straight. I think one spade is an out. Runner runner spades is disaster.

Maulik

12-19-2005, 11:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Looks fine to me, +EV but also high variance. Once you've raised pf(which is perfectly reasonable) you're getting fantastic odds every step of the way. You're opponents played horribly by pricing you in, and it nearly cost them their stacks. JMO

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I'll agree A

What hands are you putting the villain's on?

BB is on a flush draw, Button has pair/2pair/ straight. I don't want to be drawing to the six high flush here.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB range is much wider than A /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/spade.gif. I think both villians have made hands. One a set, another two pr or a straight. I think one spade is an out. Runner runner spades is disaster.

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A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif is too tight, however there are many permuatations of better /images/graemlins/spade.gif draws.

Is this read dependent?

poboy

12-19-2005, 11:29 PM

That board offers alot of possibilities besides bigger flush draws. They both probably have hit the flop, but given the pot odds at each step of the way hero can't fold.

teamdonkey

12-20-2005, 12:04 AM

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That board offers alot of possibilities besides bigger flush draws. They both probably have hit the flop, but given the pot odds at each step of the way hero can't fold.

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unlucky513

12-20-2005, 12:37 AM

honestly, i like it. i might have done things differently preflop, but overall it looks good.

i play very LAG at times, and when i am playing that way i'll play suited connectors in re-raised pots.. its a great image play, and when you catch a flop like OP did and get the odds to draw that he did, ya gotta call.. or fold preflop.

nh

12-20-2005, 12:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
well i guess the hand kinda plays itself out.... i'm not the GREATEST at the pot odds stuff.... but was i getting good enough odds here? i was getting 3-1 preflop and then like 4-1 on the flop to hit my flush..... part of me hates myself for getting involved in this hand preflop but another part of me thinks it was decent............ thoughts?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($103.30)
CO ($185.52)
Button ($70.23)
SB ($44.41)
BB ($59.32)
UTG ($50)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50. UTG posts a blind of $1.
UTG (poster) checks, Hero raises to $3, CO calls $3, Button raises to $7, 1 fold, BB calls $6, UTG folds, Hero calls $4, CO raises to $11, Button calls $4, BB calls $4, Hero calls $4.

Flop: ($45.50) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB bets $10, Hero calls $10, CO calls $10, Button calls $59.23 (All-In), BB calls $38.32 (All-In), Hero calls $49.23, CO folds.

Turn: ($222.28) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($222.28) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $222.28
Main Pot: $200.46, between Hero, Button and BB.
Pot 2: $21.82, between Hero and Button.

[/ QUOTE ]

You made several preflop mistakes here and then got yourself into a bind. You dug the whole and then kept digging.

You have low suited connectors in middle position. Ideally, what you want here is to get into a multiway pot cheaply. You do not want to raise. You are hoping for limpers before you. If I am in middle position with a hand like this and no one limps in before me, I am throwing my hand away, or maybe raising if I think the players behind me are tight.

When you raise you are usually going to push the hand to heads up, and that's not what you want with low suited connectors.

So, your first mistake was to raise. But then you compounded your mistake. You have a caller behind you (which indicates a strong hand) and a reraiser behind him (which indicates a very strong hand), plus an additional caller (this is a loose table with a lot of fish, but nevertheless you want to ditch your cards now with all the calling and reraising). But, instead you elected to call.

Then, the CO reraised on top of that. I'm putting him on AA here. The reads you should be getting on this action should negate any kind of odds you think you're getting on your hand, You should fold again here. Again you called.

Luck for you, you have a pretty good flop with the flush draw. The pot is so big at this point, that you will be able to stay in it for most raises to you. With the A on the board, you know somebody at least paired an A. I'm thinking CO made a set of Aces. (although we find that he must not have since he folds later). I would suspect that someone may also have a set of Jacks. At this point you're way behind but have a good flush draw, except that you have a low flush and with all that action you very well may be up against a higher flush if you make it.

From here on out you are definitely getting the odds for your draw, IF your draw will win it for you, and that's a big if. With two all-ins ahead of you, it should be a fold because I think your draw is dead.

So, one mistake (overplaying your hand preflop) led to a bunch of others.

scrapperdog

12-20-2005, 02:02 AM

3 bet preflop, then people start moving all-in. It would not surprise me in the slightest to see a set of jacks or aces here. If villian has a set they have close to the same chance as filling up as you do of hitting your 6 high flush.
I dont like the call of the first re-raise. It has taken control of the hand away from you, you are oop, and pretty much means you need to hit the flop smack in the face. Not to mention opens the betting again where you can get 3 bet. I would rather give up the 3 bucks then get into a situation like this. Drawing hands like 5-6 suited are no good in these situations because they are not gonna let you draw for a reasonable price. I dont like it, and am surprised so many people do.

teamdonkey

12-20-2005, 02:59 AM

$4 to call, pot is $21.50, and you know CO is gonna come along for another $4 (i laughed out loud at his min-reraise... beautiful). Even with the smallish stacks involved i'm calling the preflop raise every time.