"Happy Holidays" v. "Merry Christmas"

Has anyone else noticed the inordinate amount of (sometimes subtle) argument against using "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"? This year I've noticed it a lot more than in the past. And, have even noticed people saying "Happy Holidays" moreso than before. Very intriguing, I think.

Personally, I don't mind "Merry Christmas", "Happy Hannukah", "Joyous Quanza" (or whatever), or any other holiday greeting that people want to use. As long as it's not a Government entity endorsing one of those, of course. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thoughts? Have you noticed this (perhaps subtle) argument going on about the holiday greeting?

[hmkpoker]

"Happy Holidays" is a simple phrase that applies to everyone, doesn't (well, shouldn't) offend anyone, and doesn't alienate the rich jews with all the money who want to go shopping.

Seems +EV to me, and Bill O'Reilly can suck it.

[RJT]

Kip,

Happy Holidays is in vogue this year. What I find intriguing, though, is the “word” moreso. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

RJT

[bocablkr]

If someone wishes me 'Merry Christmas' I tell them I don't celebrate Christmas. If someone wishes me 'Happy Holidays' I say thank you.

[ QUOTE ]
Happy Holidays is in vogue this year. What I find intriguing, though, is the “word” moreso. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What "word"? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[RJT]

"Moreso". That is why I put quotes on "word". When did moreso become a word? It is quite in vogue on 2+2.

RJT

[MaxPowerPoker]

Six more shopping days left until "holiday".

[Peter666]

Interesting, because if somebody tells me "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" I say: "Praise be the Lord Jesus Christ and [censored] all the other religions."

It tends to cause awkward silences at office Christmas parties.

[ QUOTE ]
"Moreso". That is why I put quotes on "word". When did moreso become a word? It is quite in vogue on 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh! I see. I could lie and say I forgot the space... but I think I've seen it that way somuch, that it started looking right to me. Asitwere, thanks for pointing out my mistake, nottomention letting everyone else know aswell.

[atrifix]

I've heard that the OED has recently started including "moreso". Unfortunately, I don't have a copy to verify that.

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, because if somebody tells me "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" I say: "Praise be the Lord Jesus Christ and [censored] all the other religions."

It tends to cause awkward silences at office Christmas parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are serious then I would have responded that there is no god and that would have really gotten things started.

[MaxPowerPoker]

Happy holidays, from Jesus.

Merry Christmas offended people, so it was widely replaced with Happy Holidays (to account for the small % of our population who is Jewish, non Jewish/Christian Africans, and/or indiginous germanic tribal living in America, I suppose), yet wouldnt Happy Holidays still offend atheists and muslims?

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
Merry Christmas offended people, so it was widely replaced with Happy Holidays (to account for the small % of our population who is Jewish, non Jewish/Christian Africans, and/or indiginous germanic tribal living in America, I suppose), yet wouldnt Happy Holidays still offend atheists and muslims?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am an atheist and it doesn't offend me. That IS why 'Merry Christmas' offends me (birth of Jesus, etc).

Holiday means Christmas, Hannukah, and/or Kwanzaa.

Knowing that by saying Happy Holidays, I am wishing you a well (enter any one of above holidays, none of which apply to you) that doesn't in any way offend you?

What offends you about Merry Christmas then, that doesnt offend you about Merry Christmas, Hannukah, and/or Kwanzaa?

[ QUOTE ]
I am an atheist and it doesn't offend me. That IS why 'Merry Christmas' offends me (birth of Jesus, etc).

[/ QUOTE ]

And regarding the birth of Jesus, isn't it widely regarded among our intellectual superiors and other high ranking historian-types, both atheist and not, that Jesus was in fact a real person? In what way then, does the mere hint of his birth offend you?

[bocablkr]

Merry Christmas is about the birth of the so called 'son of god' - a concept I do not believe in. Hanukkah is about a great Jewish victory over the Syrian king, Antiochus. Not sure what the others are about. But they don't stress belief in God as their focal point.

[lastchance]

I like the tactful and always applicable "Have a nice break, or have a nice one." Has a nice ring to it, more than "Happy Holidays," anyway.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the tactful and always applicable "Have a nice break, or have a nice one." Has a nice ring to it, more than "Happy Holidays," anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell me this is a joke.

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the tactful and always applicable "Have a nice break, or have a nice one." Has a nice ring to it, more than "Happy Holidays," anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell me this is a joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

You meant jopke?

[hmkpoker]

"Happy Holidays" is a saying that has existed for a long time. When I was a kid, I barely knew what Hannukah was and never heard of Kwanzaa, and everyone told me that "Happy Holidays" referred to the TWO holidays that Christians celebrate during this time. Why waste another six syllables saying "and a happy new year?"

[ QUOTE ]
yet wouldnt Happy Holidays still offend atheists...

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't imagine any atheist being offended by this. Any atheist can appreciate the kind act of exchanging gifts, spending time with his/her family, and having off from work. That's what Christmas always meant to me, and I don't even see any reason to be offended by the words "Merry Christmas." It's already pretty secularized and commercialized anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
...and muslims?

[/ QUOTE ]

Who the [censored] cares? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, because if somebody tells me "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" I say: "Praise be the Lord Jesus Christ and [censored] all the other religions."

It tends to cause awkward silences at office Christmas parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

AHHHHHHH HAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!

That's excellent /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Merry Christmas offended people, so it was widely replaced with Happy Holidays (to account for the small % of our population who is Jewish, non Jewish/Christian Africans, and/or indiginous germanic tribal living in America, I suppose), yet wouldnt Happy Holidays still offend atheists and muslims?

[/ QUOTE ]

Or maybe holidays doesnt need to be taken literally and can just be referring to the "holiday" or vacation that we get at this time of year, not to mention new years is often included when one says happy holidays.

[KeysrSoze]

Neither offends me. Actually I find it funny that first Christmas and its trappings were co-opted from various other solstice religious celebrations, then the god Mammon took it back.

[BigSoonerFan]

[ QUOTE ]
"Happy Holidays" is a saying that has existed for a long time. When I was a kid, I barely knew what Hannukah was and never heard of Kwanzaa, and everyone told me that "Happy Holidays" referred to the TWO holidays that Christians celebrate during this time. Why waste another six syllables saying "and a happy new year?"

[ QUOTE ]
yet wouldnt Happy Holidays still offend atheists...

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't imagine any atheist being offended by this. Any atheist can appreciate the kind act of exchanging gifts, spending time with his/her family, and having off from work. That's what Christmas always meant to me, and I don't even see any reason to be offended by the words "Merry Christmas." It's already pretty secularized and commercialized anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
...and muslims?

[/ QUOTE ]

Who the [censored] cares? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

For once, I agree with ole Hairball. Christmas is the name of the holiday and to get sensitive about the "Christ" part of it. Many words have evolved past their original intent. Get over it.

[Bigdaddydvo]

Here's my main issue with "Happy Holidays."

It's bland. It's cliched. It's the Christmas equivalent of saying "Have a nice day." Hearing it every now and then is OK, and it never bothered me much in the past. What annoys me and most sensible people is the use of "Happy Holidays" to the exclusion of "Merry Christmas."

Christmas has both secular and religious components. If you celebrate the birth of Jesus whom I recognize as the Son of God and Messiah, great. If not, you probably at least celebrate the secular aspect of a gift exchange on the Federal Holiday designated to honor the founder of the Christian philosophy which has heavily influenced Western history and thought. If you don't partake in either, then you are in a pronounced minority and have as much business being "offended" by hearing someone greet you with "Merry Christmas" as I would taking offense to "Happy Ramadaan" in the middle of Saudi Arabia.

[Jeff V]

I find the term "Holiday Tree" is around more this year as well. That is ridiculous.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Moreso". That is why I put quotes on "word". When did moreso become a word? It is quite in vogue on 2+2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh! I see. I could lie and say I forgot the space... but I think I've seen it that way somuch, that it started looking right to me. Asitwere, thanks for pointing out my mistake, nottomention letting everyone else know aswell.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.

p.s. I didn't mean to direct it at you personally. The part about it looking right is "moreof" what I had in mind.

[BadBoyBenny]

Even if you aren't celebrating you could still be merry.

[lastchance]

Eh... Sort of.

It's what I use, personally, because so many people at my school are Jewish, and therefore, do not celebrate Christmas, while everyone gets a nice happy 2 weeks off, which is really nice.

[BadBoyBenny]

I don't believe in Santa but I am still going to have a merry Christmas.

Why can't people just enjoy Christmas as a secularized mass splurge that is necessary for our economy?

[Bigdaddydvo]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't believe in Santa but I am still going to have a merry Christmas.

Why can't people just enjoy Christmas as a secularized mass splurge that is necessary for our economy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you.

[RJT]

I always say Happy Holidays to people I know who are Jews or other non-Christians. To say Merry Christmas to such folk is a bit ridiculous, not to mention bad etiquette. (“Doingso” is similar to not addressing a Judge, Doctor, Officers in the Military, etc. by their titles.) There is nothing wrong in using it as a greeting though and of course using it to fellow Christians is appropriate.

But, the whole exclusion scenario is absurd. If the trend is to do away with the legal Holiday, then let’s do it. To have the Holiday and then try to ignore it is hypocritical. (In fact, I wouldn’t mind at all doing away the whole shebang. It has gotten way out of control. But, I run my own “businessso” I can take off work when I want.)

Btw, Holiday Tree is, as Jeff suggests, “moranic“.

RJT

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't believe in Santa but I am still going to have a merry Christmas.

Why can't people just enjoy Christmas as a secularized mass splurge that is necessary for our economy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Plus, gifts are always fun, no matter what religion you practice /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
For once, I agree with ole Hairball.

[/ QUOTE ]

uhhhhh...I'm bald from nose to thigh /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
And regarding the birth of Jesus, isn't it widely regarded among our intellectual superiors and other high ranking historian-types, both atheist and not, that Jesus was in fact a real person? In what way then, does the mere hint of his birth offend you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can we all have off from work on my birthday too? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
Eh... Sort of.

It's what I use, personally, because so many people at my school are Jewish, and therefore, do not celebrate Christmas, while everyone gets a nice happy 2 weeks off, which is really nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

He probably missed, what seemed apparent, that you are still at school (or perhaps work at one).

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And regarding the birth of Jesus, isn't it widely regarded among our intellectual superiors and other high ranking historian-types, both atheist and not, that Jesus was in fact a real person? In what way then, does the mere hint of his birth offend you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can we all have off from work on my birthday too? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on if you are in a union and how strong it is.

I would like to take this opportunity to wish you all, without any reservations, the compliments of the season. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think a lot of this that I'm hearing has to do with the hoopla over Bush's christmas cards saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", even though it had a Bible verse in it too.

Anyway, just thought I'd wish everyone a "Happy Hanu-Christma-Kwansaa-Ka" (http://www.horizonuu.org/ps/HanuChrisKwan.htm). /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[lehighguy]

It's not subtle when my mom isn't allowed to put a Christmas decoration on her desk (Hunakkah and Kwanza are ok though, the bank can't get sued for those).

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not subtle when my mom isn't allowed to put a Christmas decoration on her desk (Hunakkah and Kwanza are ok though, the bank can't get sued for those).

[/ QUOTE ]

The Jews run the banks, and the blacks don't have white collar jobs.


(this is a joke, btw)

[lastchance]

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to take this opportunity to wish you all, without any reservations, the compliments of the season. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Cute, /images/graemlins/smile.gif but I'm not going to use it, takes too long. :P

Merry Christmas is perfect for those people who you personally know are Christian, especially if you see them on December 23rd. For those who you know celebrate Christmas, "Merry Christmas" should be used as often as possible.

Happy Hanukkah/Kwanzaa is too American for me, IMHO. It would be like saying "Happy Christmas." Too Americanized. While I use English a lot more than Chinese, I'd never say Happy Chinese New Year, it will be "xin nian kuai le." It's culture.

I actually really like this one (for school at least): "Enjoy your break." (combined with some other random stuff)

Considering our vacation is a very long two weeks, I feel "Enjoy your break" is right up there with "Merry Christmas."

And yeah, I'm still in school. At work, when your break is two or three days, I'm definitely going to need to find something new.

[ QUOTE ]
Merry Christmas offended people, so it was widely replaced with Happy Holidays (to account for the small % of our population who is Jewish, non Jewish/Christian Africans, and/or indiginous germanic tribal living in America, I suppose), yet wouldnt Happy Holidays still offend atheists and muslims?

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe this all started when various organizations/retailers made a conscious effort to shift from saying "Merry Christmas" to "Happy Holidays" (or whatever). It has more to do with avoiding potential offence than anyone actually complaining about anything. Store X wants everybody to spend $2000 at this time of year - why limit it to people who celebrate Christmas? Why even hint at discouraging them? Especially when "non-Christian" is a faster growing demographic than "Christian"?

As for the offensiveness of the phrase "Merry Christmas", it primarily stems from the root word "Christ" which means "annointed one" as in "annointed to be the Son of God". Now I don't care about this. I like Christmas for it's secular charms and I'm just as willing to keep calling it Christmas as I'm willing to say that today is "Tuesday" (i.e. the day of the Norse God Tyr).

The really silly thing about all this is that there is precious little about Christmas that is actually Christian in origin. The "reason for the season" has far more to do with the solstice than Jesus.

On a side note, The Daily Show and Stephen Colbert did a wonderful job on this issue this past week. I especially loved this jab at Bill O'Reilly (paraphrased).

Bill O : I don't understand why anyone would find "Merry chritmas" offensive. It's not.

A different interview:
Bill O : Saying "Happy Holidays" is deeply offensive to Christians.

[Peter666]

"If you are serious then I would have responded that there is no god and that would have really gotten things started."

Definitely, because I usually respond with something to the effect: "There is no God? Good. No one can save you now!" And proceed with a sucker punch.

I'd be very surprised if you could find an atheist that could be offended by a holiday greeting, they have a predisposition to common sense.

I heard this year that some xstians are offended by "crossing out Christ" so from now on its Xmas as far as I'm concerned /images/graemlins/smile.gif

As South Park explained, its no longer about religion or any rubbish like that, Christmas is about.. Presents

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
"If you are serious then I would have responded that there is no god and that would have really gotten things started."

Definitely, because I usually respond with something to the effect: "There is no God? Good. No one can save you now!" And proceed with a sucker punch.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sucker punch someone because they start a conversation about god? By the way, the last guy that tried to sucker punch me ended up in the hospital (don't miss).

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"If you are serious then I would have responded that there is no god and that would have really gotten things started."

Definitely, because I usually respond with something to the effect: "There is no God? Good. No one can save you now!" And proceed with a sucker punch.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sucker punch someone because they start a conversation about god? By the way, the last guy that tried to sucker punch me ended up in the hospital (don't miss).

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you just make a physical threat or brag in a message board?

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be very surprised if you could find an atheist that could be offended by a holiday greeting, they have a predisposition to common sense.



[/ QUOTE ]

I am offended by Merry Christmas, not a generic Holiday greeting. Also offended by 'in God we trust' and 'one nation under God'. It implies that I believe in God which I find very insulting.

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"If you are serious then I would have responded that there is no god and that would have really gotten things started."

Definitely, because I usually respond with something to the effect: "There is no God? Good. No one can save you now!" And proceed with a sucker punch.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sucker punch someone because they start a conversation about god? By the way, the last guy that tried to sucker punch me ended up in the hospital (don't miss).

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you just make a physical threat or brag in a message board?

[/ QUOTE ]

Peter666 made the threat - it's not bragging if its true.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd be very surprised if you could find an atheist that could be offended by a holiday greeting, they have a predisposition to common sense.



[/ QUOTE ]

I am offended by Merry Christmas, not a generic Holiday greeting. Also offended by 'in God we trust' and 'one nation under God'. It implies that I believe in God which I find very insulting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Grow some balls.

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard that the OED has recently started including "moreso". Unfortunately, I don't have a copy to verify that.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's way down under "more"

f. With ellipsis of the word or sentence modified. Now freq. with anaphoric so (see SO adv. 4a) in more so (also, chiefly U.S., moreso). (all) the more: the rather, the more so (as, because, etc.).

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"If you are serious then I would have responded that there is no god and that would have really gotten things started."

Definitely, because I usually respond with something to the effect: "There is no God? Good. No one can save you now!" And proceed with a sucker punch.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sucker punch someone because they start a conversation about god? By the way, the last guy that tried to sucker punch me ended up in the hospital (don't miss).

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you a ninja?

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd be very surprised if you could find an atheist that could be offended by a holiday greeting, they have a predisposition to common sense.



[/ QUOTE ]

I am offended by Merry Christmas, not a generic Holiday greeting. Also offended by 'in God we trust' and 'one nation under God'. It implies that I believe in God which I find very insulting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Grow some balls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you offended by anything?

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
If someone wishes me 'Merry Christmas' I tell them I don't celebrate Christmas. If someone wishes me 'Happy Holidays' I say thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does everything have to be a statement Ayn Rand? Can't you just accept that someone was wishing good to you and leave it at that?
You must be a blast to hang around with.

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If someone wishes me 'Merry Christmas' I tell them I don't celebrate Christmas. If someone wishes me 'Happy Holidays' I say thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does everything have to be a statement Ayn Rand? Can't you just accept that someone was wishing good to you and leave it at that?
You must be a blast to hang around with.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I interpreted 'Merry Christmas' to mean hope you like to share with others then I would have no problem. But to me it means the celebration of a figure that I do not believe in. If you want to totally commercialize Christmas and take out any religious connotations then I guess you would have a point. But, that is not the way it is meant now.

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If someone wishes me 'Merry Christmas' I tell them I don't celebrate Christmas. If someone wishes me 'Happy Holidays' I say thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does everything have to be a statement Ayn Rand? Can't you just accept that someone was wishing good to you and leave it at that?
You must be a blast to hang around with.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I interpreted 'Merry Christmas' to mean hope you like to share with others then I would have no problem. But to me it means the celebration of a figure that I do not believe in. If you want to totally commercialize Christmas and take out any religious connotations then I guess you would have a point. But, that is not the way it is meant now.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, I understand that, that wasn't my point.
If you sneeze and a little old lady says "God Bless You" do you bow up and get in her face?

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
See, I understand that, that wasn't my point.
If you sneeze and a little old lady says "God Bless You" do you bow up and get in her face?


[/ QUOTE ]

To be perfectly honest - none of my friends say that to me because I do say something. I ask them what do you mean 'bless me'? Are you a priest or something? Everyone who knows me says Gesundheit (good health). Much more appropriate.

[tylerdurden]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not subtle when my mom isn't allowed to put a Christmas decoration on her desk (Hunakkah and Kwanza are ok though, the bank can't get sued for those).

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait, the bank doesn't (or shouldn't) have the right to dictate what can or cannot be displayed on their property?

[Peter666]

Oh, feeling insecure during Christmas time, eh Atheist? No reason to celebrate, no spiritual joy to partake of. Ha ha, how lonely and sad.

[Eurotrash]

[ QUOTE ]
You must be a blast to hang around with.

[/ QUOTE ]



I don't rly participate in the SMP discussions so I don't know your usual demeanor, but Boca you sound like a grade A douchebag. an legitimate gayblade, even. seriously, it has nothing to do with you being an atheist or whatever, but taking offense to "God bless you" is just so stupid.

also, loll @ "the last guy that tried to sucker punch you ended up in a hospital." I bet you're a 6'4", 235 tough guy and not just an internet nerdlinger, right?


also, the concept of a "holiday tree" is gay. "happy holidays" replacing "Merry Christmas" is gay.

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, feeling insecure during Christmas time, eh Atheist? No reason to celebrate, no spiritual joy to partake of. Ha ha, how lonely and sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am neither lonely or sad /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You must be a blast to hang around with.

[/ QUOTE ]



I don't rly participate in the SMP discussions so I don't know your usual demeanor, but Boca you sound like a grade A douchebag. an legitimate gayblade, even. seriously, it has nothing to do with you being an atheist or whatever, but taking offense to "God bless you" is just so stupid.

also, loll @ "the last guy that tried to sucker punch you ended up in a hospital." I bet you're a 6'4", 235 tough guy and not just an internet nerdlinger, right?


also, the concept of a "holiday tree" is gay. "happy holidays" replacing "Merry Christmas" is gay.

[/ QUOTE ]

This really isn't the place for personal attacks - but you are entitled to your opinion. I think calling someone 'gay' because they are truly offended by something is rather immature. I am sure because 90% of the people in THIS country believe in God they can't understand being offended by it. But that doesn't change the fact that I am. That was sort of the purpose of the original post - wasn't it.

By the way, I am 6 feet, 180 lbs. Not super large - just know how to defend myself and I have a fair amount of friends.

[siegfriedandroy]

yeah, our society is much progressed and enlightened. a great debate to get our panties ruffled over. i think it's great

[ QUOTE ]
That was sort of the purpose of the original post - wasn't it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that it matters, you can say whatever you want, but my question was more as to why people were offended by "happy holidays" -- more so this year than I've ever noticed before. I think it started with the President's christmas cards or something.

I even say "merry christmas" to people -- I am not offended by it. I am "offended" (kinda, not really) by having our government endorse a particular religion(s) though. I'm all for separation of church & state. But, that's a different topic. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Homer]

Anyone who is offended by someone saying "Merry Christmas" needs to calm down and think about the intent of the comment. In almost all circumstances, it's the equivalent of "hello", nothing more.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who is offended by someone saying "Merry Christmas" needs to calm down and think about the intent of the comment. In almost all circumstances, it's the equivalent of "hello", nothing more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. And the same for "Happy Holidays" or "Joyous Kwanzaa" or "Helluva Hannukah" or whatever. I agree, no reason to be offended, I don't think. The point I was trying to make, though, is that it seems a lot of people are being offended by "Happy Holidays" -- more so than usual. You'd probably agree that there's no reason to be -- and I agree with you. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[istewart]

Please point me toward any area where you've ever heard people say "Joyous Kwanzaa."

So I can remind myself never to go there.

[ QUOTE ]
Please point me toward any area where you've ever heard people say "Joyous Kwanzaa."

So I can remind myself never to go there.

[/ QUOTE ]

You missed the "or whatever" part of my post.

[ QUOTE ]
From: PokerRoom.com [mailto:support@pokerroom.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 3:18 AM
Subject: PokerRoom.com wishes you a Happy Holiday!

[/ QUOTE ]

This offends me. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[OtisTheMarsupial]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who is offended by someone saying "Merry Christmas" needs to calm down and think about the intent of the comment. In almost all circumstances, it's the equivalent of "hello", nothing more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Offended is a bit too strong a word here. I'd say annoyed fits better. I'm offended when people say "Merry Christmas" in that jesus loves you way, and I'm just slightly annoyed when people say "Merry Christmas" in the I'm lazy/mildly rude and don't want to say "Happy Holidays" way.

Saying "Merry Christmas" all the time is poor etiquette, not a criminal offense. But, would you run around on your birthday saying "Hapy Birthday" to others?

No, you tell people Happy ___ thing they celebrate. You say Happy Chanukah to Jews and Merry Christmas to Christians and Happy Holidays when you don't know the person well or they're atheist, and so on...

Just like you say "please" and "thank you." It's just plain old fashioned proper etiquette.

[ianlippert]

I'm an athiest, I say merry xmas. Seriously why would it annoy you? Cant you enjoy xmas in a secular way, as in just a time to be with family and collect mad loot /images/graemlins/smile.gif

North America is mostly christian, why would you get angry when they want to celebrate the central figure in their faith. I wouldnt go to a muslim country and get all pissed off at them when they want to practice their religion.

Political Correctness is just lame people trying to make a point that nobody cares about.

[peritonlogon]

[ QUOTE ]

Political Correctness is just lame people trying to make a point that nobody cares about.

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Ahhh, no, Political Correctness is just a lame way to dismiss someone's point of view out of hand....but whatever...

[OtisTheMarsupial]

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North America is mostly christian, why would you get angry when they want to celebrate the central figure in their faith. I wouldnt go to a muslim country and get all pissed off at them when they want to practice their religion.


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No one is angry.
We said we were offended and annoyed when they tell us to have a merry Christmas.
We're not angry, offended, or annoyed that they want to celebrate Christmas.

It's about being polite. It's about etiquette.

It's in the same vein as pronouncing someone's name correctly or addressing them with their proper title (Dr, Mr, Ms).

[mostsmooth]

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"Happy Holidays" is a simple phrase that applies to everyone.

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no it doesnt.

[hmkpoker]

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"Happy Holidays" is a simple phrase that applies to everyone.

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no it doesnt.

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Close enough.

[mostsmooth]

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"Happy Holidays" is a simple phrase that applies to everyone.

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no it doesnt.

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Close enough.

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yeah, its close enough that they might as well stick with merry christmas.

[hmkpoker]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Happy Holidays" is a simple phrase that applies to everyone.

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no it doesnt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Close enough.

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yeah, its close enough that they might as well stick with merry christmas.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be fine with that too.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
"Happy Holidays" is a simple phrase that applies to everyone.

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no it doesnt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Close enough.

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yeah, its close enough that they might as well stick with merry christmas.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be fine with that too.

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id be finer with strangers not saying anything.

[hmkpoker]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
"Happy Holidays" is a simple phrase that applies to everyone.

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no it doesnt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Close enough.

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, its close enough that they might as well stick with merry christmas.

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I'd be fine with that too.

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id be finer with strangers not saying anything.

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Good luck with that

[mostsmooth]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Happy Holidays" is a simple phrase that applies to everyone.

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no it doesnt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Close enough.

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, its close enough that they might as well stick with merry christmas.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be fine with that too.

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id be finer with strangers not saying anything.

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Good luck with that

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i know /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[hit_the_set]

Happy Holidays is the more general term. Top companies make sure they dont use "Merry Christmas" just so that people dont sue them or file a lawsuit. Aparently, people get offended If you use "Merry Christmas". I got this version from my company secretary and I work for one of the top five consulting firms in the world.

This is a nice one that shows the ptoblem with Christmas being all over your face.

A Jewish Mother Letter to Santa (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/lifestyle/253243_jewishmomtosanta.html?source=mypi) from the Seattle Post Intelligencer.

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This is a nice one that shows the ptoblem with Christmas being all over your face.

A Jewish Mother Letter to Santa (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/lifestyle/253243_jewishmomtosanta.html?source=mypi) from the Seattle Post Intelligencer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very touching. That 1st Santa was an ignorant jerk. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Double Down]

I know it's been a day since the last post on this thread but I wanted to put in my 2 cents on being offended, etc. by holiday greetings.
As a point of reference, I was raised as a Jew but now am more of a very spiritual person who realizes that the ways of our universe cannot be confined to the limitations that any major world religion attempts to place upon it and its workings. Anyway...

I am not personally "offended" by people wishing me Merry Christmas, happy holidays, etc. However, I do sometimes find it annoying. Yes, all intentions are good. People are wishing me to have a happy and enjoyable holiday, and I am grateful for that. However, to wish someone Merry Christmas still comes from a place of major ethnocentrism. It makes the huge assumption that all people in this country are Christian, or at least are so engulfed in a Christian society that they don't mind being told to have a happy time this year celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.

Someone asked, "would you be offended if you went to the Middle East and wished you a happy Ramadan?" No, I wouldn't, because in most Middle Eastern countries (and in many countries) there is an official religion, and that religion permeates many aspects of their society.

Yes, Christianity does here in the US, too, but it shouldn't. If one of the foundations of this nation is the separation of church and state, then we shouldn't have a national (NATIONAL!) holiday based on the head figure of a religion.

To say happy holidays is also kind of silly because, truly, it's the lazy politically correct way to still wish someone Merry Christmas without saying it. It's like saying, "hey, look at me. I'm an all inclusive person now! Happy Whatever, non Christian!"

The really funny thing about the whole shebang is that Hannukah isn't even a major Jewish holiday!! Society just assumes it is because it is around the same time as a major Christian holiday!

If we were to flip it around for a moment, it's like if Jews went around wishing everyone a great Passover, but then realizing that that isn't all inclusive, made sure to wish everyone a great Good Friday, assuming that that is a huge Christian holiday.

People, be aware that the major reason why Christmas is such a big deal is because of the gross materialistic commercialization, and if I were a Christian, THIS would offend me greatly. It would be corrupting a most sacred part of my religion, and it's an insult to Christianity and it's an insult to Jesus, who I do believe was a brilliant man and an enlightened being who was sent to us to raise our level of consciousness. But we corrupted and misinterpeted his messages and turned it into a season of buying crap for relatives and bad sitcom specials. Does this ring a bell?


"Merry Christmas, Urkel."
"Merry Christmas, Winslows. And God bless us, everyone. Now, who's got some cheese? (snort snort)"

And to all those who say, "It's a time of year when everyone is getting along and being nice to each other, isn't that a good thing?"
Yes, it is, but it's not a good thing that we have designated times of the year when we express our love for each other. We buy gifts for people on Christmas, for their birthdays, and we buy some expensive shiny thing for our women on Valentine's Day. It's as if our society has said, "It's too much work to show our affection every day, so do it on these days, and if we all agree to do it on these days, then you won't have to do it on the other days."

I let the important people in my life who I love know it on a regular basis. I buy people gifts for people when I feel like it and I see something that I think they'd like, not necesarily on days I'm told I'm supposed to get them something.

And this to me means more to do nice things for people on a regular basis, and not some official time. And I'm not saying that people are normally jerks and then all of the sudden on Christmas they're nice (although some people I know are like that).

But we sure do use holidays as a reason to get along.
"Come on, let's not fight- It's Christmas!"

Well, crap, if we're fighting some other time are we just supposed to have it out? Sure, why not? No one important died TODAY.

Wow, this ended up a lot longer than I thought. Sorry.

For the record, when someone wishes me a Merry Christmas or happy holidays, I say thank you and wish them the same. And I do mean it.
I am just of the opinion that we need to stop having excuses for being kind to each other; we need to stop making it a special occasion, because then it allows for us to take each other for granted the other 360 days of the year. Are you with me on this people?

[ QUOTE ]
I am just of the opinion that we need to stop having excuses for being kind to each other; we need to stop making it a special occasion, because then it allows for us to take each other for granted the other 360 days of the year. Are you with me on this people?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am with you, mate. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Nice post. One quick comment about this:

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If one of the foundations of this nation is the separation of church and state, then we shouldn't have a national (NATIONAL!) holiday based on the head figure of a religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's still a big debate here in the U.S. -- Evangelicals, particularly, think the "separation of church & state" is not part of our heritage, but rather we are a Christian nation.

I am atheist and I do find it a little offensive when people tell me Merry Christmas. I am not offended when people wish me Happy Holidays, because I consider New Year's part of the holidays. I am, however, highly offended by the Christmas display in front of my small town's city hall. I have called about the display to see if it was purchased by the city, and indeed it was. I have already made arrangements to contact the ACLU regarding this. How dare a local government that is using MY tax dollars purchase religious displays.

Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.
We have solved ... the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808). This is his second use of the term "wall of separation," here quoting his own use in the Danbury Baptist letter. This wording was several times upheld by the Supreme Court as an accurate description of the Establishment Clause: Reynolds (98 U.S. at 164, 1879); Everson (330 U.S. at 59, 1947); McCollum (333 U.S. at 232, 1948)