Ordering wine in restaurants

I just turned 21, and it occurred to me that if I'm ever at a decent restaurant, it's probably normal to get wine with dinner. As I currently know absolutely nothing about wine, other than that Pinot Noir is apparently the end-all of all wines, how do I go about picking a good one?

I'm not quite as concerned with picking something whose taste will blow my mind as I am the social aspect...i.e. if I'm with a date, is it normal to confer with her and choose a bottle to share? Or for us each to get a glass of whatever the hell we feel like? Passing knowledge of wine in general that would keep me from looking like a retard would help as well.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

As I currently know absolutely nothing about wine, other than that Pinot Noir is apparently the end-all of all wines

ROFLMAO, where'd you hear that??? Let me guess, you saw the movie "Sideways."

Seriously, Pinot is good, and some are great, but there is no such thing as "the best" wine. Like anything else, it's taste, and what you want the wine to do. (what food it accompanies, etc.)

There are some foods with which even the best Pinot Noir would be a terrible choice. Like poker advice, wine advice needs to be applied to specific circumstances.

Although as a rule of thumb, any wine that either comes in a box or can be opened without a corkscrew should be considered off limits(hint: to sound like a real wine geek, call a corkscrew a "wine key")

[Yeti]

Get the second cheapest bottle of white.

[Los Feliz Slim]

[ QUOTE ]
Get the second cheapest bottle of white.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has been the standard play for so long I think restaurants inflate the price of the second cheapest bottle even more than usual. I'm going third cheapest these days.

[RunDownHouse]

If you're at a decent restaurant, your waiter should be able to suggest a wine that will be a basic compliment to your meal. Do a little web research to learn the absolute basics (white with seafood, red with steak, riesling with dessert, etc) so you can tell if your server is an absolute idiot.

If you aren't at a nice enough place for the waiters to have wine knowledge, do more extensive research. Knowing general rules of thumb for pairings should be fine unless you want to become an expert, in which case you're better off taking a class than asking OOT.

Find a good byob place so you can bring a decent wine with you for cheap.

[mrkilla]

Asking your date is a nice touch but what makes you think she knows more then you. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ask her if she likes red or white , though not all wines go with all meals. as a rule of thumb red goes with "red things" (IE Marinara/Meat Sauce, Steak, Lamb) and whites with ( Garlic/Creame sauces,Chiken, fish or Pork). Though its not a hard and fast rule

I would shy away from a Cab. until you try it (IE get a glass before you buy a bottle) there delicious but you may not like it. You may get alot of people telling you to get one.

2 Good "dinner" wines are Merlot (for red) and Pinot Grigio (for white) both are light and dry easily drinkable.

a good "girlie" wine is White Zinfandel , thats the "pink" or blush wine alot of the ladies enjoy, its sweet though not usually good for dinner, just for drinking.

Also I wouldnt go "Nuts" with trying to impress her with the best bottle of wine, chances are niether of you will know the diffrences.

Getting into wine is like getting into scotch the more you start drinking it the more you want to try others. Keep going until you find a style you like then you can start drilling into the brands/years etc etc.

[MuckerFish]

Here's a little trick that may help in a pinch. It's by no means scientific or an absolute, but it's a good starting point if you've had little experience with wine, or if you are choosing a wine for other people, and aren't sure what to get based on meal pairing.

How you/another person likes their coffee,etc usually correlates with what kind of wines you/they may like. So from boldest to lightest:

Black coffee/ unsweetened coffee: Cab or Red Zinfidel
Regular coffee (ie cream+sugar): Merlot or syrah
Light coffee(light or real sweet) or a dark tea drinker: Pinot Noir
Lighter teas or tea with sugar: Charddoney
Tea with cream+sugar: Pinot Grigiot,

This is a real loose guideline, but will help in a pinch. Obviously there's a ton of variables. Some Chards can be bolder that a pinot noir, etc, but no need to worry about it now. Get out there and try a bunch of different wines and see what you like. Don't fret too much over wine/food pairing, as it is a personal thing. You should choose a wine because you like it, not because it's "supposed" to go with something. For example, I love bold cabs, so I generally drink it with just about any food. But in general, a heartier meal pairs better with bolder wine. ie: red meats with bigger wine, chicken/seafood with lighter wines.

Hope it helps.

[HDPM]

"Although as a rule of thumb, any wine that either comes in a box or can be opened without a corkscrew should be considered off limits(hint: to sound like a real wine geek, call a corkscrew a "wine key")"


I don't think this is a rule anymore. More good wine is bottled with stelvin closures all the time. And recently I decided to try one of the new boxed wines because the convenience of the preservation made it good for when you want one glass of mediocre wine. It isn't bad. Also, more wines are going to be put in other packages. Cheaper, easier, and in many cases superior for inexpensive wines. More good wines are lost to bad corks than most want to think about, and cork is getting more expensive.

[fyodor]

I like my coffee black and my wine red. Chianti with meat.

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
Black coffee/ unsweetened coffee: Cab or Red Zinfidel
Regular coffee (ie cream+sugar): Merlot or syrah
Light coffee(light or real sweet) or a dark tea drinker: Pinot Noir
Lighter teas or tea with sugar: Charddoney
Tea with cream+sugar: Pinot Grigiot,


[/ QUOTE ]

THis is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

OP,

Good Reds:
-Merlot (Good, all around red wine, goes well with most foods)
-Shiraz (Lighter, and nice with most foods)
-Cabernet Sauvignon (Some love it, some hate it)

White
-Pino Grigio
-Chardonnay (Lighter)

If you're at a resturant where the waiters wear tux's, they you can rely on their advice.

[OtisTheMarsupial]

Actually, it's not "normal" to order wine with dinner. In fact, I'm sure the majority of diners do not order wine with their meals. (Having been wait staff, I can tell you most people know nothing about wine and most don't order it except at very high end restaurants).

If you're out on a date and you're interested in ordering a bottle (that is, you plan to drink 2-3 glasses) then ask your date if there is anything on the wine menu that piques her interest because you think you'll order a bottle. Make it sound casual like that so she doesn't feel obligated to choose a wine.
If she can't or doesn't want to choose anything then go for it yourself or ask your server.

Notes:
If she makes any mention of alcoholism or she gives off bad vibes when you discuss drinking, by no means order a bottle and recondiser a glass.

If she is underage, forget it. Order a glass for yourself or just stick to soda/ ice tea. No need to make an awkward situation or get anyone fined.

If you're serious about a girl, cook dinner for her yourself and choose a great wine to compliment it. Bonus points = call her to ask if she's allergic to anything and to ask what wine she likes. (But don't get weird and stalkerish about it - ONE phone call only. Not text messages about it, no IMs...)

If a restaurant offers carafs, this is your new favorite restaurant.

[Boris]

Read a book like Wine For Dummies. Then go out and try a bunch of different wines.

As for the date advice, there's lots of pussy masters on this forum that can answer all your woman questions. That being said, if it's the first date you might want to take the initiative and pretend like you know what you're doing with the wine list. Try to find out if your date is much of a wine drinker. If she says no or she only drinks white wine, then order a pinot noir. Otherwise get whatever you want. If you really want to look cool, look to see if a particular wine is served by the glass. If it is, you can ask for a taste before ordering a bottle.

[DrunkIrish05]

[ QUOTE ]
If a restaurant offers carafs, this is your new favorite restaurant.

[/ QUOTE ]

I recently was in Calgary for business and ate at alot of nice places that used these. I have absolutely no idea what purpose they serve. Can someone explain to me why they are used and why this is better than normal?

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, it's not "normal" to order wine with dinner. In fact, I'm sure the majority of diners do not order wine with their meals. (Having been wait staff, I can tell you most people know nothing about wine and most don't order it except at very high end restaurants).


[/ QUOTE ]

I think this may be a regional thing. I've rarely been to a nice dinner where a bottle of wine has not been ordered.

[Boris]

Otis has a greater agenda here. His/her angle is to drastically reduce the amount of sex and drinking that goes on in this life.

[mrkilla]

it also serves as a decantar and usually cost a little less

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
I can tell you most people know nothing about wine and most don't order it except at very high end restaurants).


[/ QUOTE ]

But when we do, we order *lots* of it!

[mrkilla]

[ QUOTE ]

I think this may be a regional thing. I've rarely been to a nice dinner where a bottle of wine has not been ordered.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's also cultural, Italian/French etc etc

[MrMon]

There is so much bad advice (and good) in here that someone should try to sort it out. I volunteer.

First off, congrats on turning 21 and wanting to learn something about the subject. You are ahead of 90% of the other 21 year-olds. Let's stick with ordering wine in a restaurant, anything else is too complex to start.

1. Most people don't know crap about wine. I know enough to know I don't know much, and I know quite a bit. Know this, name and price tell you little. If you've seen an advertisement, odds are it's bad. (Yellow Tail is a exception, but at $5 a bottle, you're getting value, not great wine.)

2. If you are in a chain restaurant, odds are the wine is not worth ordering. Higher end, it might be worth a shot, say something like Carrabba's (even they're questionable), Ruth's Chris, better local chains. Better to stick with the best draft microbrew. Less chance of getting something undrinkable. If you want wine with dinner, find a place that works on combining the two, generally a local place. They don't have to be too expensive, just aware of what's required. Ask around or check reviews.

3. Never order wine before ordering food. They need to match, no one can order wine properly without knowing what they're going to eat. (The exception will be if you know you're ordering steak. If you order steak in a restaurant regularly, you are too boring for words. NYC residents are exempt, since they aren't allowed to grill at home.)

4. If you're in a place you dare order wine, talk to the waiter. If he/she has no idea, don't order the stuff. If they do know what they're talking about, they should know what will match what you're ordering. Good chefs will have matched the wine with that night's selection and it should be available by the glass. That's right, by the glass. It's rare that you and your date will order something that will be best complimented by the same wine. Order a glass that will go best with each entree. And use the expertise of the waitstaff if they have any.

5. If a wine flight, generally 3 similar half glasses, that matches your entree is available, take it. Great way to learn about how different wines interact with the same food.

6. Allow red wine to breathe a little before tasting. Taste any wine to make sure you'll like it. Send it back if it's something you can't stand. On glass orders, this is really easy and they're generally accomdating. Better yet, ask for a taste before having them pour a glass. You'll have to guess a bit at how the red will turn out, but with experience you'll know what to look for.

That's it. Nothing about this goes with that, this is a good wine or this isn't. (Other than white zin or white merlot, which is almost NEVER good.) Be prepared to try different things, some which you'll like, some you won't. Just try it. Make mental notes of what works and what doesn't, what you like. Also, look for a class at a local wine store and learn more. After 20 or 30 years, you'll be amazed at how little you still know, but will have learned and enjoyed a lot.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Taste any wine to make sure you'll like it. Send it back if it's something you can't stand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absurd. Tasting wine is to check if the wine is corked, not whether you made a good choice.

[nyc999]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Taste any wine to make sure you'll like it. Send it back if it's something you can't stand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

If you're not sure what to get, Pinot Noir (red) and Reisling (white) are both versatile wines that can go with most food. They may not always be the best choice, but they usually will not clash with your meal.

The most popular reds (Cabernet, Bordeaux) and whites (Chardonnay) are often the wrong choice - they overpower many dishes.

[jaydub]

[ QUOTE ]
There is so much bad advice (and good) in here that someone should try to sort it out. I volunteer.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually your advice is terrible.

[ QUOTE ]

2. If you are in a chain restaurant, odds are the wine is not worth ordering. Higher end, it might be worth a shot


[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong, especially for those just getting into wine.

[ QUOTE ]

Less chance of getting something undrinkable.


[/ QUOTE ]

Very rarely will one get something that could be described so strongly and most often it will be due to a bad bottle and should be sent back.

[ QUOTE ]

3. Never order wine before ordering food. They need to match, no one can order wine properly without knowing what they're going to eat.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a huge exagerration. Yes wine's can and should be paired to foods but they do not have to be. For a beginner this is totally unnecessary beyond very basic red with beef type matchings.

[ QUOTE ]

(The exception will be if you know you're ordering steak. If you order steak in a restaurant regularly, you are too boring for words.


[/ QUOTE ]

Makes no sense.

[ QUOTE ]

4. If you're in a place you dare order wine


[/ QUOTE ]

Dare???? It's not [censored] russian roulette it's a bottle of damn wine. What is so [censored] daring?

Just terrible advice throughout.

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
This is absurd. Tasting wine is to check if the wine is corked, not whether you made a good choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

While this is completely true, it's also worth pointing out that if you order a bottle that isn't spoiled but turns out to be not to your liking--too sweet, too dry, whatever--any halfway decent restaurant will allow you to change your selection.

[Cyrus]

Excellent.

Who the f*ck are you, the Playboy Advisor ?

[ QUOTE ]
NYC residents are exempt, since they aren't allowed to grill at home.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Whaaa?

Educating yourself about fine wines just means that you'll learn to dislike that perfectly good Franzia and have to spend $25 for a bottle.

If you want to impress someone at a restaurant, pick red or white depending on what you're eating, and then choose based on price. Generally, higher-priced = more impressive, though your mileage may vary. If the woman you're with knows wine, let her pick.

[dblgutshot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NYC residents are exempt, since they aren't allowed to grill at home.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Whaaa?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I was curious about this too.

Anybody have an opinion of these? I don't drink much wine but I tried this and enjoyed it, the price is cheap as well. If I liked this, what other wines would you recommend me?

http://www.thelittlepenguin.com/wines/images/img_shiraz_bottle.jpg

[MrMon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is so much bad advice (and good) in here that someone should try to sort it out. I volunteer.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually your advice is terrible.

[ QUOTE ]

2. If you are in a chain restaurant, odds are the wine is not worth ordering. Higher end, it might be worth a shot


[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong, especially for those just getting into wine.

[ QUOTE ]

Less chance of getting something undrinkable.


[/ QUOTE ]

Very rarely will one get something that could be described so strongly and most often it will be due to a bad bottle and should be sent back.

[ QUOTE ]

3. Never order wine before ordering food. They need to match, no one can order wine properly without knowing what they're going to eat.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a huge exagerration. Yes wine's can and should be paired to foods but they do not have to be. For a beginner this is totally unnecessary beyond very basic red with beef type matchings.

[ QUOTE ]

(The exception will be if you know you're ordering steak. If you order steak in a restaurant regularly, you are too boring for words.


[/ QUOTE ]

Makes no sense.

[ QUOTE ]

4. If you're in a place you dare order wine


[/ QUOTE ]

Dare???? It's not [censored] russian roulette it's a bottle of damn wine. What is so [censored] daring?

Just terrible advice throughout.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I always order the house red with a steak at Appleby's. Bet you think Bud Light is good beer too. Almost anyone with a grill and a good cut of meat can make a better steak at home than you can get in any restaurant. Why order what you can make at home? And wine at Appleby's/Friday's/Ruby Tuesday/CPK/Chili's/Bennigan's etc. is almost always a bad idea.

Seriously, there is some bad plonk out there, something that even first timers shouldn't be subject to. And yes, if you can at least get something halfway decent when starting, you're more likely to continue.

I never said send back a BOTTLE. That's why you don't order bottles, especially when you're first starting. You can easily send back a glass. They will also let you taste glass pours before getting a full glass if you just don't know. Most decent restaurants will do this.

Finally, if a restaurant will advise a food/wine pairing, by all means take their advice. Even the finest red will taste bad if paired incorrectly. Pinot noir with steak is going to taste thin, even if you are following the red with beef rule. Some merlots would work great with steak, many will not. Italian reds don't seem to work with steaks either, but that just might be me, I'm not a big Italian fan, but I have been surprised. There is no way most people will know this, and they'll wonder what is wrong with the wine.

Being macho and thinking you can do it on your own is just a crap shoot waiting to go bad. Expertise is out there, use it.

[ackid]

Ask the waiter for the house's finest bottle of Boone's Farm. Its French.

Chilled of course.

[MrMon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NYC residents are exempt, since they aren't allowed to grill at home.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Whaaa?

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't BBQ grills illegal in NYC? Okay, maybe not completely, but for a lot of NYC, I see in the Fire Dept. Regs. they're a definite no-no.

[MrMon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NYC residents are exempt, since they aren't allowed to grill at home.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Whaaa?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I was curious about this too.

Anybody have an opinion of these? I don't drink much wine but I tried this and enjoyed it, the price is cheap as well. If I liked this, what other wines would you recommend me?

http://www.thelittlepenguin.com/wines/images/img_shiraz_bottle.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Decent value. Australians excel at bang for the buck. Yellow Tail works as well. Then get a bottle of Lindemann's, same grape, $11-$12/bottle and compare side-by-side. You should notice an immediate difference.

Good everyday wines can be had from $8-$14/bottle. The trick is sorting the good from the bad. A good wine store will have already done the sorting for you.

[DrunkIrish05]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NYC residents are exempt, since they aren't allowed to grill at home.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Whaaa?

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah I was curious about this too.

Anybody have an opinion of these? I don't drink much wine but I tried this and enjoyed it, the price is cheap as well. If I liked this, what other wines would you recommend me?

http://www.thelittlepenguin.com/wines/images/img_shiraz_bottle.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm a fan, especially for the price

[Ulysses]

goofy,

Ignore most everything in this thread.

When you go someplace where you think a glass of wine would be nice to have, ask the waiter to recommend a few glasses of wine. Pick one that sounds good and is reasonably priced. Just stick with ordering glasses until you've been drinking wine for a while.

Initially, you'll probably want to avoid wines that are described as very dry/oaky/tannic/big. These are all indicators of various types of strong/powerful flavors that take a little getting used to.

When you drink wines at restaurants or dinner parties or wherever, initially start remembering the types (Chardonnay, Merlot, Pinot, Cabernet, etc.) of wines and the descriptions (dry, fruity, tannic, etc.). As you try more wines, you'll figure out which tastes you like and look for those. And then start paying more attention to the specific wineries, but that's not really something that's very important until you start buying/drinking wine a lot.

If you get into wine, buy a few $10-15 bottles from the grocery or wine store and just bust them open from time to time at home to try out more stuff and see what you like.

The main point is, if you want to read/study/know guidelines/etc, all that stuff is fine. But it's really all about tasting a lot of wines and figuring out what you like.

[MrMon]

What he said...

[lgas]

In my experience, Pinot usually tastes like sweat.

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NYC residents are exempt, since they aren't allowed to grill at home.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Whaaa?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I was curious about this too.

Anybody have an opinion of these? I don't drink much wine but I tried this and enjoyed it, the price is cheap as well. If I liked this, what other wines would you recommend me?

http://www.thelittlepenguin.com/wines/images/img_shiraz_bottle.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had it, it's nice.

Australian wines are the way to go if your buying bottles in a liquor store. A $8-10 bottle of Yellowtail or Jacob's Creek is the same level of quality as a $12-15 Italian or French wine.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is absurd. Tasting wine is to check if the wine is corked, not whether you made a good choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

While this is completely true, it's also worth pointing out that if you order a bottle that isn't spoiled but turns out to be not to your liking--too sweet, too dry, whatever--any halfway decent restaurant will allow you to change your selection.

[/ QUOTE ]

This reminds me of the apocryphal story of the man who returned used tires to Nordstrom and they accepted the return, despite the fact that they never sold tires. It might be true (and for most restaurants it is true) but that doesn't make the practice right.

[tonypaladino]

I hate that story about Nordstrom. It's printed in every [censored] managment textbook in existance.

Edit: Also, it's made up and is also claimed by Home Depot

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
If you really want to look cool, look to see if a particular wine is served by the glass. If it is, you can ask for a taste before ordering a bottle.

[/ QUOTE ]

A really good restaurant will even let you taste it after you open the bottle and send it back if you don't like it. I've had a few do this for me (including, oddly, the Bellagio Buffet) though I've never sent it back because I pretty much knew what I was getting into before I ordered the wine.

Edit: Ah, now I get why they tell me to taste it. Makes more sense now. I'm always late...

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate that story about Nordstrom. It's printed in every [censored] managment textbook in existance.

Edit: Also, it's made up and is also claimed by Home Depot



[/ QUOTE ]

Whether or not it is true (I highly doubt it is), Nordstrom should be the model for managemtnt textbooks. From working there, I remember how customer oriented they were. They would literally accept returns for anything that could remotely have possibly been sold in the store, without a receipt and without question... even going so far as to give a cash refund and not store credit here. Made for a lot of abuse, however.

Edit: Sorry for the derail.

Many wine shops have tasting parties that are resonably priced($20-50) where you will get to try a sh*tload of different wines. They cater to everyone from novice to experienced. The big thing is to keep tasting. I also recommend the book The Wine Avenger.

[J.A.Sucker]

Wine advice from the Sucker:

1. Cab Sav and Merlot are generally far overpriced, and the choices on most menus aren't as good as some other big reds. If you're eating steak, look for a great Zinfindel (red, not white, otherwise known as shite) or a Syrah/Shiraz. Ask the waiter - that's what he gets paid for, and look for something big and fruity. These are excellent wines. If you're going Zin and see something from Ridge, you can't go wrong. Penfold's makes several good Shiraz/Shiraz blends that are typically good and are widely available.

2. Pinot Noir is a fantastic wine, but must be done correctly to be any good. However, with something like lamb, this is bliss. Typically, the best Pinots cost a lot, but that's what I like to drink at least 50% of the time.

3. Cabernet Franc is another widely underrated varietal. Look for it, love it.

4. If you plan on drinking lots of wine with a meal and you are thinking about what wines to get, let the waiter know that you're willing to take a bit of a flyer, but if the wine sucks, send it back. They'll end up drinking it at the bar anyway. Just make sure you order another comparable bottle of wine. If you're ordering the cheapest wine on the menu and do this though, you're a cheezeball. Just drink it if this is the case.

5. For fish, I like something like a Sav Blanc or a very dry Riesling or Gewurztraminer (sp?), but these last two are often very sweet and terrible. Chardonnay can be good, but I don't like oaky wines, which are popular for some reason (people like movie butter popcorn to drink). Chablis can be excellent, though if you don't drink cheap stuff.

6. With Italian food (red sauce), drink a nice Chianti or Sangiovese.

7. I think it's always best to order wine as soon as you sit down. Ask the people at your table if they are doing fish, steak, lamb, whatever, and go from there. If some are doing fish and others steak, get two bottles. You do this because lots of wines need to open up (letting out gases like sulphur) and this takes 30 minutes or more. Even white wine gets better as it opens up for a bit. When I'm in a big group, I order all the wine up front and have them open all of them. Often, you can taste the wine change with the meal.


That's about all there is to it. Wine is truly one of those fun things in life, and I didn't realize this until I moved to California five years ago. Just keep trying lots of wines and see what you like - remember characteristics of the ones you like and don't like (i.e. lots of fruit, grassy (for whites), mineral, oaky, whatever). After awhile, you'll learn to look for certain regions that produce consistent wines that you like, and you can usually find one you like. Same thing goes or labels.

[J.A.Sucker]

Going to tastings is excellent advice.

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hate that story about Nordstrom. It's printed in every [censored] managment textbook in existance.

Edit: Also, it's made up and is also claimed by Home Depot



[/ QUOTE ]

Whether or not it is true (I highly doubt it is), Nordstrom should be the model for managemtnt textbooks. From working there, I remember how customer oriented they were. They would literally accept returns for anything that could remotely have possibly been sold in the store, without a receipt and without question... even going so far as to give a cash refund and not store credit here. Made for a lot of abuse, however.

Edit: Sorry for the derail.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the more plausible versions states that the particular Nordstroms where this happened was just opened in a location where the previous occupant was a dept store that sold tires. That I might beleive, but the only evidence is random anicdotes.

I like the return policy where I work. Strict-ass adherance to the written policy and a cutomer tracking databse that would make the NSA jealous.

(Also sorry for the hijack)

[J.A.Sucker]

The Daver,

I disagree, but you should be up front about it. Usually, you get a wine that you don't like when you are trying something new. Usually, you talk this out with the waitperson, and they know what you are doing. This is SOP, though I usually don't find something that totally sucks. On the second bottle, though, you are compelled to drink it unless it's corked.

[J.A.Sucker]

El D,

He is right.

[MrMon]

[ QUOTE ]
Wine advice from the Sucker:

1. Cab Sav and Merlot are generally far overpriced, and the choices on most menus aren't as good as some other big reds. If you're eating steak, look for a great Zinfindel (red, not white, otherwise known as shite) or a Syrah/Shiraz. Ask the waiter - that's what he gets paid for, and look for something big and fruity. These are excellent wines. If you're going Zin and see something from Ridge, you can't go wrong. Penfold's makes several good Shiraz/Shiraz blends that are typically good and are widely available.

2. Pinot Noir is a fantastic wine, but must be done correctly to be any good. However, with something like lamb, this is bliss. Typically, the best Pinots cost a lot, but that's what I like to drink at least 50% of the time.

3. Cabernet Franc is another widely underrated varietal. Look for it, love it.

4. If you plan on drinking lots of wine with a meal and you are thinking about what wines to get, let the waiter know that you're willing to take a bit of a flyer, but if the wine sucks, send it back. They'll end up drinking it at the bar anyway. Just make sure you order another comparable bottle of wine. If you're ordering the cheapest wine on the menu and do this though, you're a cheezeball. Just drink it if this is the case.

5. For fish, I like something like a Sav Blanc or a very dry Riesling or Gewurztraminer (sp?), but these last two are often very sweet and terrible. Chardonnay can be good, but I don't like oaky wines, which are popular for some reason (people like movie butter popcorn to drink). Chablis can be excellent, though if you don't drink cheap stuff.

6. With Italian food (red sauce), drink a nice Chianti or Sangiovese.

7. I think it's always best to order wine as soon as you sit down. Ask the people at your table if they are doing fish, steak, lamb, whatever, and go from there. If some are doing fish and others steak, get two bottles. You do this because lots of wines need to open up (letting out gases like sulphur) and this takes 30 minutes or more. Even white wine gets better as it opens up for a bit. When I'm in a big group, I order all the wine up front and have them open all of them. Often, you can taste the wine change with the meal.


That's about all there is to it. Wine is truly one of those fun things in life, and I didn't realize this until I moved to California five years ago. Just keep trying lots of wines and see what you like - remember characteristics of the ones you like and don't like (i.e. lots of fruit, grassy (for whites), mineral, oaky, whatever). After awhile, you'll learn to look for certain regions that produce consistent wines that you like, and you can usually find one you like. Same thing goes or labels.

[/ QUOTE ]

He knows what he's talking about, but this is the advanced course, not Wine Ordering 101. OP, print this out and reread in 6 months.

[Brain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NYC residents are exempt, since they aren't allowed to grill at home.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Whaaa?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I was curious about this too.

Anybody have an opinion of these? I don't drink much wine but I tried this and enjoyed it, the price is cheap as well. If I liked this, what other wines would you recommend me?

http://www.thelittlepenguin.com/wines/images/img_shiraz_bottle.jpg


[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.thelittlepenguin.com/wines/images/img_merlot_bottle.jpg

I've had both of these. I really like the merlot and my old roommate loved shiraz so we drank a fair amount of those. Someone else mentioned Yellowtail, but I didn't like their merlot at all. It was just too boring and didn't have much taste. Maybe I suck at wine.

[Clarkmeister]

Here's some great domestic wines under $20.

Winery: Buehler Score: 93

Wine: Zinfandel Napa Valley 2003 Highly Recommended
Price: $15
Country: California
Region: Napa
Issue: Oct 31, 2005


Amazingly plush and supple, with a flow of ripe blueberry, blackberry, plum and wild berry fruit that goes down easy. Hints of pepper, spice and cedar flavors linger in the background, letting the fruit shine through. Drink now through 2008. 1,200 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: Cliff Lede Score: 92

Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Napa Valley 2004 Smart Buys
Price: $18
Country: California
Region: Napa
Issue: Aug 31, 2005


Vibrant and pointed, with wonderful concentration to the rich passion fruit, grass, hay, floral and lemon peel flavors. Stays deft and crisp, with a wash of palate-cleansing acidity along with a measure of harmony and finesse. Drink now through 2006. 1,140 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: Novy Score: 92

Wine: Syrah Sonoma County 2003 Smart Buys
Price: $19
Country: California
Region: Sonoma
Issue: Jul 31, 2005


A bold, rich, dark-hued wine, with roasted plum and juicy blackberry and boysenberry. Turns thick and plush at midpalate and finishes with a gush of fruit, smoky toasty oak and a touch of heat. Drink now through 2010. 1,116 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: Rosenblum Score: 92

Wine: Zinfandel Paso Robles Richard Sauret Vineyards 2003 Highly Recommended
Price: $19
Country: California
Region: South Coast
Issue: Jun 30, 2005


A delicious young Zin, with layers of ripe, zesty blackberry, boysenberry and wild berry shaded by toasty oak. Plush, rich aftertaste. Drink now through 2009. 7,029 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: Buehler Score: 91

Wine: Chardonnay Russian River Valley Reserve 2002 Price: $20
Country: California
Region: Sonoma
Issue: Jul 31, 2005


Plump, ripe and fleshy, with a complex range of pure Chardonnay flavors built around apple, pear, spice and a hint of mint that offers a shade of anise. Keeps its focus and finishes with a lingering aftertaste. Drink now. 300 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: Ferrari-Carano Score: 91

Wine: Fumé Blanc Sonoma County 2004 Smart Buys
Price: $15
Country: California
Region: Sonoma
Issue: Jul 31, 2005


A terrific, stylistic effort. Vibrant and lively, with a delicious mix of orange rind, grapefruit, fig compote and subtle grass tones. Lemon blossom and tart quince flavors keep pumping out the intensity through the finish. Drink now through 2007. 30,000 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: Kenwood Score: 91

Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Sonoma County 2004 Smart Buys
Price: $13
Country: California
Region: Sonoma
Issue: Jul 31, 2005


Tangy, with high-toned lemon-lime, grapefruit, fig and peach flavors. Already harmonious, with a bright vibrancy that will complement food. Kenwood's at the top of its Sauvignon game. Drink now through 2007. 78,000 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: Ledgewood Creek Score: 91

Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Suisun Valley 2004 Smart Buys
Price: $10
Country: California
Region: Other California
Issue: Nov 15, 2005


What an exciting Sauvignon Blanc. Fragrant, with orange blossom, lemon-lime and grassy flavors that are intense and vibrant, picking up a green apple and tart citrus edge. It keeps pumping out the concentration through the finish. Drink now through 2007. 250 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: LinCourt Score: 91

Wine: Syrah Santa Barbara County 2003 Smart Buys
Price: $20
Country: California
Region: South Coast
Issue: Sep 30, 2005


This wine offers a wonderful array of ripe, fleshy wild berry, blackberry and boysenberry fruit that's intense, concentrated and impeccably balanced and finishes in a long, pure aftertaste. Best from 2006 through 2012. 1,058 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: Carrefour Score: 90

Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Napa Valley 2004 Price: $16
Country: California
Region: Napa
Issue: Aug 31, 2005


Intense, complex and concentrated, with vibrant sweet pea, green fig, grass, floral and grapefruit notes, the flavors lingering on the finish with a lemony vibrancy. Drink now through 2006. Tasted twice, with consistent notes. 340 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: Chateau Souverain Score: 90

Wine: Sauvignon Blanc Alexander Valley 2004 Smart Buys
Price: $14
Country: California
Region: Sonoma
Issue: Jul 31, 2005


Tight and concentrated. Slowly unfolds to reveal a medley of rich grass, lemon-lime, fig and floral character, with a citrus tanginess lingering on the finish. Drink now through 2006. 9,468 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: Eola Hills Score: 90

Wine: Syrah Columbia Valley-Oregon Reserve 2000 Price: $20
Country: Oregon
Region: Oregon
Issue: Jun 30, 2005


Tastes a bit like a Barossa (Australia) Shiraz, with its tarry, licorice-scented cherry, dark raspberry and plum flavors lingering on the remarkably clear-headed, open-textured finish. Drink now through 2010. 500 cases made. (HS)
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Winery: Gordon Brothers Score: 90

Wine: Merlot Columbia Valley 2002 Smart Buys
Price: $15
Country: Washington
Region: Washington
Issue: Aug 31, 2005


Smooth and rich, a plush mouthful of sweet cherry, dried currant and dusky spice flavors that linger on the silky finish, hinting at sage as the wine persists. Drink now through 2009. 2,561 cases made. (HS)
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Winery: Barnard Griffin Score: 90

Wine: Merlot Columbia Valley 2003 Smart Buys
Price: $19
Country: Washington
Region: Washington
Issue: Oct 15, 2005


Fresh, generous and appealing for its pretty currant and blueberry aromas and flavors, remaining polished and juicy through the extended, gently spicy finish. Drink now through 2010. 5,600 cases made. (HS)
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Winery: Morgan Score: 90

Wine: Chardonnay Monterey 2003 Smart Buys
Price: $20
Country: California
Region: Bay Area/Central Coast
Issue: Sep 30, 2005


A touch floral and leafy in the aroma, but very rich and complex on the palate, with concentrated apple, pear, melon, spice and citrus notes all adding to the flavor range; the acidity gives the finish a lively edge. Drink now. 10,300 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: Sebastiani Score: 90

Wine: Cabernet Sauvignon Sonoma County 2002 Smart Buys
Price: $17
Country: California
Region: Sonoma
Issue: Oct 31, 2005


This skillfully balanced wine combines ripe, fleshy Cabernet fruit with light cedar and mocha-scented oak, letting the currant, plum and black cherry fruit shine through. A delight to drink now and over the next few years. Drink now through 2009. 52,000 cases made. (JL)
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Winery: Three Rivers Score: 90

Wine: Gewürztraminer Walla Walla Valley Late Harvest Biscuit Ridge Vineyard 2003 Price: $12
Country: Washington
Region: Washington
Issue: Oct 15, 2005


Sweet but succulent, with lovely rose petal and orange peel overtones to the sweet pear and honey flavors, lingering well. Drink now through 2010. 536 cases made. (HS)
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Winery: Viento Score: 90

Wine: Syrah Columbia Valley Cuvée R 2003 Price: $20
Country: Washington
Region: Washington
Issue: Oct 15, 2005


Rich and generous, with a lively balance of just enough acidity to keep the smoky plum and cherry flavors rolling through the long, peppery finish. Drink now through 2010. 150 cases made. (HS)

[tonypaladino]

Some really good info in here from Clark and Sucker. I'm saving this thread.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
The Daver,

I disagree, but you should be up front about it. Usually, you get a wine that you don't like when yodu are trying something new. Usually, you talk this out with the waitperson, and they know what you are doing. This is SOP, though I usually don't find something that totally sucks. On the second bottle, though, you are compelled to drink it unless it's corked.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Sucker, I think you're referring to a fairly unique case where the buyer is knowledgeable and the waitstaff/sommelier should also be knowledgeable and the decision leads to something not at all like what was discussed. For this, I have no problem. But for a case that is much more likely for the OP or others here--that is, the buyer says, "Blech! That doesn't taste like what I want!" for unusual, more out of the way wines like a good Chinon or Sancerre or Cotie Rotie--the scenario is much more likely to create expectations of returnability in a situation originally designed to ensure only that the wine isn't corked.

[timprov]

When you're starting out, definitely each get a glass of what you feel like. Offer to let her taste yours, and hopefully she'll reciprocate.

I don't have much time for the popular varieties in this thread, personally, so I don't have anything to add to specifics. The most important thing is to keep records of your results. A wine log is very useful when you're trying to remember just what the name was of that one you liked so much.

[Cyrus]

I spent the winter of 1985 drinking caseloads of Chablis 1983, which the local supermarket was dumping at the cheapest possible price, not knowing what they had, and snacking on parmiggiano reggiano.

Getting laid a lot, too, but that was to be expected.