Overpair hands...standard plays? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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bills217

12-19-2005, 02:14 AM

Villain is Loose-Agg-Agg but not a complete maniac, 40/6/3.00

Party Poker NL $50 (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($121.95)
Hero ($52.95)
MP ($15)
Villain ($115.38)
Button ($19.25)
SB ($59.05)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP posts a blind of $0.50. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, Villain raises to $6, 3 folds, Hero calls $4.

Flop: ($13.25) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $8, Villain calls $8.

Turn: ($29.25) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain checks.

River: ($29.25) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $15, Villain raises to $40, Hero calls $23.95 (All-In).

Final Pot: $108.20

Villain is complete donk, 84/16/0.75

Party Poker NL $50 (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($26.25)
CO ($91.15)
Hero ($69.30)
Villain ($47.75)
BB ($51.34)
UTG ($49.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. Villain posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Hero raises to $3, Villain calls $2.75, 1 fold, MP folds, CO folds.

Flop: ($7.50) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $5, Villain calls $5.

Turn: ($17.50) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $15, Villain calls $15.

River: ($47.50) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Villain bets $20, Hero calls $20.

Final Pot: $87.50

Feel free to analyze all streets.

tagtastic

12-19-2005, 02:24 AM

Good plays IMO - 1st hand you're probably beat, but you're getting a good price so I wouldn't fold this. 2nd hand you're probably ahead more than not, but don't expect to be ahead all the time given a 0.75 post flop aggression - he may have hit something with a really terrible hand here. Call here and take it back a few hands later by betting, betting, betting, an 86/16/0.75 call station isn't gonna keep it too long.

DJ Sensei

12-19-2005, 02:30 AM

1) I wouldnt call this standard... but its not bad. I assume you were going for a turn checkraise?

2) might push the river, but I think this one is fine.

bills217

12-19-2005, 02:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I assume you were going for a turn checkraise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, just wanted to slow down and see what he would do in case I was way behind to AA, a set, or a straight. His pre-flop re-raise opened up the possibility he had Aces...his PFR was only 6 so I didn't see him doing that w/ a lot of hands. And the board was starting to look pretty straightish in case his pre-flop raise was a bluff. I take it you recommend a turn bet?

PoBoy321

12-19-2005, 03:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I assume you were going for a turn checkraise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, just wanted to slow down and see what he would do in case I was way behind to AA, a set, or a straight. His pre-flop re-raise opened up the possibility he had Aces...his PFR was only 6 so I didn't see him doing that w/ a lot of hands. And the board was starting to look pretty straightish in case his pre-flop raise was a bluff. I take it you recommend a turn bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think that a set or straight are even remotely in villain's hand range unless he is incredibly aggro. I really have no problem playing a huge pot against what is very like QQ or JJ and based on the river action, I'm very confident was JJ.

-Skeme-

12-19-2005, 04:00 AM

I bet the turn in the first one. What's the point of a check on that turn if you're just gonna get it all in on that river?

bills217

12-19-2005, 08:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't think that a set or straight are even remotely in villain's hand range unless he is incredibly aggro. I really have no problem playing a huge pot against what is very like QQ or JJ and based on the river action, I'm very confident was JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. 6-6, flopped the set.

Initially I thought the pre-flop re-raise from $2 to $6 (and the fact that he didn't donk push which you see a lot at this level) screamed AA. I thought that was his most likely hand.

bills217

12-19-2005, 08:27 PM

Does anyone favor a pre-flop push (or big re-raise) in the first hand, facing a re-raise w/ KK against a LAG?

leehrat

12-19-2005, 08:34 PM

i might. if he has AA (which he probably doesn't), so be it.

bills217

12-19-2005, 08:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I bet the turn in the first one. What's the point of a check on that turn if you're just gonna get it all in on that river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I just wanted to see what he would do. He was an aggressive player, so the flop call made me suspicious. That combined w/ the PF re-raise really made me think he was trying to squeeze more money out of me w/ his Aces. If he makes a big bet there I might fold. His check seemed to indicate weakness (AK maybe?), leading me to bet the river, but of course, he had 6-6 for the flopped set.

Not saying it was the right play necessarily, as in hindsight I couldn't be behind to any reasonably likely hand besides AA. Just letting you into my thinking.

12-19-2005, 09:38 PM

Hand #1:

Just from the way he played the first hand, I would have put him on JJ. I would have been in "I'm calling, but I really don't like it"-land. A country which is thankfully getting smaller and smaller by the day now.

While the PF re-raise is a bit of a donk play, it disguised his hand beautifully. Realistically, I would have been stacked on this hand, although in a different manner than you were.

On reflection, while re-re-raising against a rock is a bad idea (as a PF rock's re-raising range is generally AA-KK), it's the way to go vs. a LAA. Stacking an LAA is something you do with a hidden hand, letting them push the pot size out of control. Your hand range is fairly obvious here, so you might as well just get what $ you can out of him PF.

While AA-KK are consistent money makers, they're not good for stacking opponents (unless they make their own set), since most of the time a person that's willing to push has an overpair beat.

Hand 2: You're probably beat, but you only have to be ahead 1 time out of 3, AQ & KQ are real possibilities, so I would call as well, and not feel bad about it. But when a donk like this opens after following for two streets, this is basically the equivilant of a raise, meaning TPTK or higher. Hopefully it's a blocking bet for TPTK.

Maulik

12-19-2005, 10:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is Loose-Agg-Agg but not a complete maniac, 40/6/3.00

Party Poker NL $50 (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($121.95)
Hero ($52.95)
MP ($15)
Villain ($115.38)
Button ($19.25)
SB ($59.05)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. MP posts a blind of $0.50. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, Villain raises to $6, 3 folds, Hero calls $4.

Flop: ($13.25) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $8, Villain calls $8.

Turn: ($29.25) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain checks.

River: ($29.25) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $15, Villain raises to $40, Hero calls $23.95 (All-In).

Final Pot: $108.20

PF I'd be making it $3 to go, no exceptions.

Flop: pot it, its rainbow two pair, or pair+gutshot draw heaven.

Turn: Villain doesn't have 47o, Bet 2/3 pot.

River: Just push or check. The Jack doesn't help him win? Check and hope he bluffs with his pair+gutshot?