Not being able to STAY asleep

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

I know trouble sleeping had been discussed before, but it's usually about falling asleep. I rarely have any trouble falling asleep, just staying that way.

Over the last week or so, I've just been randomly waking up every night after only about four hours. It's been like clockwork, and then it's hard to get back to sleep. I've never had this problem before. In fact, if anything I usually oversleep, and I sleep very heavily. It takes a lot to wake me up.

This is starting to get really annoying as four hours is clearly not enough sleep and I feel groggy and tired during the day.

Anyone experience anything similar? I thought it might be a fluke, but it keeps happening every night after 21 years of good sleeping every night...Is there something wrong with me?

Thanks.

Craig

[man]

yeah I've had this trouble before, earlier this fall, but I've also had mild sleep issues in general anyway. I'd go to sleep at 1, wake up at 5, lie in bed for a few hours, eventually go back to sleep. this was also when I was running 50 miles a week. in general I think this happens when you're stressed out. exercise might help, even though it didn't happen in my case. you could try to get medication, but it can make you just as groggy. generally I wouldn't worry about it too much, because you won't get to sleep if you try too hard.

[surfinillini]

http://www.homegrocer.com/images/products/nyquil%20orig%20liquid.gif

+

http://lostworld.pair.com/blog/images/pics/feb26-ambien.jpg

= COMATOSE sleep

[Blarg]

Do you get much caffeine? I find that sometimes I build up to such a high level that even a little will tip me over the edge, and it will take days and days for me to be able to sleep right again.

Boozing screws up your sleep too.

[KingDan]

If you smoke/consume caffeine a few hours before going to sleep it will [censored] up your schedule.

If you take a nap during the day this can mess it up too.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

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in general I think this happens when you're stressed out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did have finals this week and was stressed; although it happened last night and I was done. Maybe just the leftover stress?

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exercise might help, even though it didn't happen in my case.

[/ QUOTE ]

I exercise regularly anyway.

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you could try to get medication, but it can make you just as groggy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did try Tylenol PM one night which put me out, but I woke up 4hours later feeling very groggy and couldn't get back to sleep.

[InchoateHand]

Almost all sleep medications will get you to sleep, few will keep you asleep, and the rebound effect may contribute even further difficulties to your present situation. Alcohol especially--as your body breaks it down, a lot of people find themselves waking up.

I also have your problem, and it intersects unhappily with my major difficulties getting to sleep in the first place. After over ten years of various regimes, various sleeping medications, many moves, job changes, etc. I can offer you no solution.

Certainly the situation is greatly exacerbated by stress--I wake up most frequently, and sleep most fitfully, when my mind is "racing," and in the past that has almost always occured for work and/or school related reasons.

Good luck.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you get much caffeine? I find that sometimes I build up to such a high level that even a little will tip me over the edge, and it will take days and days for me to be able to sleep right again.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might be on to something w/this one. I have a pretty high tolerence though. I can drink a cup of coffee and go right to bed usually. However, I have had way way more than usual this last week. Studying at Panera = lots of free refills.

My dad has had this exact same problem for quite a while. He has taken various sleepin medications, both prescription and non. None really help him stay asleep. Im goin to visit him starting Tuesday so I will see if he found anything that worked.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

[ QUOTE ]

Certainly the situation is greatly exacerbated by stress--I wake up most frequently, and sleep most fitfully, when my mind is "racing," and in the past that has almost always occured for work and/or school related reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah it's probably stress; my mind has been racing. It's just weird because I've never had this problem.

[patrick_mcmurray]

1. Alcohol is a depressant initially but a stimulant after about 8 hours.
2. Caffeine
3. Exercise
4. Light - do you have decent curtains?
5. Noise - ear plugs?

gl

[Jeebus]

Drinking is a big cause, once you sober up you wake up.

I have this problem alot of the time and normally I will wake up 4-6 hours after going to bed and 2-3 hours before I should get up. I lay in bed for a couple hours and fall asleep just to wake back up for whatever I got to do and then its real hard to get up. I found that if I just go ahead and get up at that time a few times in row it will take care of itself.

stress?

If it gets to a point where it's constantly bothering, I'd go get it checked out. You can probably go to your local pharmacy and they'll explain a few things to you. I think it may have something to do with your eating habits, daily living, stress, etc.

Probably stuff you can control on your own rather than needing medication.

I notice that I sleep a lot better when I go work out or exercise or do something physically exhausting that enables me to basically crash out once I lay down in bed.

[peritonlogon]

I don't sleep very much anyway... 4-6 hours average (rarely 8, usually a little more than 4) But I do have similar problems, the not getting to sleep and the not staying asleep (after 4-5 days of ~2 hours of sleep I start to feel really drained.)

The solution I use from time to time is 5 table nano NLHE.

This seems to take the edge of my mind racing, is not stressfull since there's very little money involved and is not very engaging since it's nano + I get to make a few dollars.

Also, if you have insomnia of some sort + minimal sleep requirements you pick up a habit that most people never acquire, namely, getting up whenever you are awake. I suggest doing this, you'll make use of the time that you would otherwise spend staring up at the ceiling and it will help you get to sleep that night and the next.

Welcome to the zombie club. BTW when I was a carpenter I would always sleep a blissfull uninterupted ~5 hours....sometimes 8 if I worked 12 hours.

[Skipbidder]

Don't read in bed.
Don't do anything in bed besides sleep and sex, actually.
Watch the caffeine intake.
Don't eat close to bedtime either.
Have you made your bedroom as noise-free as possible?
Are there pets in your house? These are a common cause. Pesonally, I can't bring myself to lock my cats out of the room, so I live with the [censored] sleep.

If you wake up and can't get back to sleep quickly, get up. Do some exercise. Seriously. If you aren't going to do some exercise, go play one set of SNGs. Do something that requires some thought for half an hour to an hour, then see if you can get back to sleep. This will only be good if you can manage NOT to stew about things afterwards. I can't, so the exercise is the better option for me.
Don't nap during the day.
Try to get into a routine for when you get up and when you go to bed. Falling asleep itself isn't your problem. If it were, then I'd advise you to try to get to sleep, then if you can't after about 20 minutes, then get up and do something (like exercise) for 30 minutes, and try again.
A routine may be tough for you maintain as a student. You've got late night cramming and carousing to do.

You are unlikely to actually need a sleeping pill. If you do get one, it's likely to be Ambien. My personally prescribing preference is currently for off-label low-dose trazodone.

[Blarg]

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Don't do anything in bed besides sleep and sex, actually.


[/ QUOTE ]

This one is huge I think. Don't even do anything in your bedroom at all besides screwing or sleeping. If you almost never even go into your bedroom, it will condition you so just walking into it will set off psychological triggers that the place is all about sleep and you'll start shutting down just being there.

[YourFoxyGrandma]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you get much caffeine? I find that sometimes I build up to such a high level that even a little will tip me over the edge, and it will take days and days for me to be able to sleep right again.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might be on to something w/this one. I have a pretty high tolerence though. I can drink a cup of coffee and go right to bed usually. However, I have had way way more than usual this last week. Studying at Panera = lots of free refills.

[/ QUOTE ]

A cup of coffee stays in your system for something like 6 hours. Sleeping while under the effects of caffeine is essentially worthless; whatever happens to your body to recharge itself while you sleep is effectively cancelled out by the caffiene. Lots of coffee before bed = not good practice. It's also how most people get hardcore addicted. You drink a cup before bed, get a worthless sleep, wake up, drink coffee all day to stay awake, repeat.

[wonderwes]

http://www.akins.com/Featured/images/melatonin/melatonin.jpg

Melatonin can be found in any grocery store. It is probably the best sleep aid, since your body's brain naturally produces it. This will just give you an extra kick.

I have a friend who has your problem, but much, much worse. He did a sleep study once to figure out what was going wrong, where they hooked up electrodes to his head to monitor his sleep stages through the night. He woke up, on average, every 8 minutes.

There are a couple things that can cause this. First, if you're overweight or often drunk when you go to sleep, you might have apnea. Apnea happens when your throat closes while you're asleep, and you can't breathe. After several seconds, your body panics, and you wake up very briefly, adjust your position, and go back to sleep. Then it happens again in a few minutes to an hour. Apnea is typically accompanied by loud snoring. If you develop apnea at 21, you need to lose weight or stop drinking so much.

Another possibility is just that you have poor sleep hygiene, and it's catching up with you as you get older. This means you go to bed and get up and different times on different days, so your body doesn't have a consistent schedule.

Sleeping pills are a temporary solution. They will eventually stop working, and you'll be in even worse shape than you started. Google "sleep hygiene" for a lot of information about how you can train your body to sleep properly.

[Reqtech]

Lay off the caffeine.

If after all this advice you're still having trouble, ask your doctor to perscribe Immovane. I've been using it for a couple of years to counter the effects of other medicinal stimulants and it's still working. Before that, I was a terrible sleeper who tried everything with no success.

[GoblinMason (Craig)]

[ QUOTE ]

There are a couple things that can cause this. First, if you're overweight or often drunk when you go to sleep, you might have apnea. Apnea happens when your throat closes while you're asleep, and you can't breathe. After several seconds, your body panics, and you wake up very briefly, adjust your position, and go back to sleep. Then it happens again in a few minutes to an hour. Apnea is typically accompanied by loud snoring. If you develop apnea at 21, you need to lose weight or stop drinking so much.


[/ QUOTE ]

Niether one is a problem.

[ QUOTE ]
Another possibility is just that you have poor sleep hygiene, and it's catching up with you as you get older. This means you go to bed and get up and different times on different days, so your body doesn't have a consistent schedule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now here you might be on to something. I have no set sleep schedule whatsoever. I pretty much just sleep when I get tired , and now that I'm on break, get up whenever I want to. I'll have to look into this one, although it may be difficult to change.

[Skipbidder]

He probably won't get Imovane (zopiclone) in the US.
He might be able to get Lunesta, however (and perhaps as a sample). Lunesta is basically a slimy trick by a pharmaceutical company to avoid patent laws. Lunesta is the effective isomer of zopiclone (eso-zopiclone), but is not any more effective in practice. The same thing was done with Nexium (vs. Prilosec) and Xopenex (vs. albuterol).

My practice would usually be to avoid new drugs for a few years when there are older drugs that are reasonable. This is not a problem for Lunesta, however, since zopiclone has been safely used for years worldwide. I haven't prescribed Lunesta because I don't have reason to. It is not on formulary at my hospital for inpatients. (I would be unlikely to use it anyway, chosing Ambien, trazodone, or a benzo first anyway.) As far as outpatients are concerned, my office doesn't take pharmaceutical samples (a practice I wholeheartedly support), so I don't have any to hand out. After taking care of sleep hygiene issues (and taking care of mood disorders, which are sometimes at the root of sleep problems), I don't have to prescribe for sleep very often.

It still sounds like cleaning up your sleeping habits would be the preferable first choice for you. This can often be difficult in the environment you find yourself in.

[ QUOTE ]
Now here you might be on to something. I have no set sleep schedule whatsoever. I pretty much just sleep when I get tired , and now that I'm on break, get up whenever I want to. I'll have to look into this one, although it may be difficult to change.

[/ QUOTE ]
This does take a lot of discipline. My friend has substantially improved his condition by very strictly regulating his caffeine and alcohol intake, and going to bed and getting up at certain times. He's less fun to hang out with since he started doing this. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Here's a reasonably good primer:
http://www.umm.edu/sleep/sleep_hyg.html

I do want to reiterate that drugs are very rarely a long-term solution to sleep problems. Yes, Ambien or Nyquil or whatever you get will knock you out when you first start it, but it will lose its efficacy over time. At that point, if you stop taking it, the withdrawal will make your sleep even worse. I suspect the MDs and med students would agree with me here.