22$ first hand QJs in BB

[meditate89]

***** Hand History for Game 3220362033 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:18378976 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Sunday, December 18, 01:31:51 ET 2005
Table Table 67460 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: billydafish3 ( $800 )
Seat 6: Matt_Shaffer ( $800 )
Seat 8: chipcrazed ( $800 )
Seat 9: QuasiFiction ( $800 )
Seat 10: WrigleysXtra ( $800 )
Seat 7: HERO ( $800 )
Seat 4: matts777 ( $800 )
Seat 2: StNicholas ( $800 )
Seat 3: jhawkljw ( $800 )
Seat 1: Hebecat ( $800 )
Trny:18378976 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Qd Jd ]
chipcrazed calls [15].
QuasiFiction folds.
WrigleysXtra folds.
Hebecat calls [15].
StNicholas folds.
jhawkljw folds.
matts777 folds.
billydafish3 calls [15].
Matt_Shaffer folds.
HERO checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qs, Ts, 9c ]
HERO checks.
chipcrazed checks.
Hebecat bets [65].
billydafish3 calls [65].
HERO ???

- I could smooth call and try to hit two pair/ trips / straight
- But there's a flush draw out there, so I basically need to raise or fold.
-If I make a substantial raise I will be committing myself with top pair good and a good draw- not the end of the world but if someone has two pair or a set I surely am behind...

Sorry if this seems like a newbish question but I'm not that great post flop, especially with these small blinds, and I feel like I often leak away chips early in situations like this. But it seems really really bad to fold here.
Thanks in advance for your replies.

I almost forgot to mention: I obviously have the chance to bet out, not sure if not doing so was a mistake? Would like to hear arguments for betting / checking as well...

[splashpot]

I think I would bet out because of the flush draw, but the check/raise looks good too. You have to raise the flop. I'd bump it up to 250 or so. And I'm calling if he pushes. If not, I'm pushing on the turn.

[anacrime]

Why do you check the flop? Are you hoping that it gets checked all the way through?

Pot is small. Throw out a pot sized bet on the flop. If raised, consider folding.

[ QUOTE ]



- I could smooth call and try to hit two pair/ trips / straight


[/ QUOTE ]

Just for the record you do NOT want to hit 2 pair here.

[meditate89]

Splashpot- Are you really comfortable playing this for your whole stack? They could have KQ or AQ(unlikely since no raise), or a bunch of other things. The pot is small, and it's early in the game. You seem to be willing to 'go to bat' with this hand...

Anacrime- What's your plan for a scary turn? (Ace, Flush, Jack?) Whats your play if they min raise your flop bet? Or slightly more? Just folding seems weak
Slim- I agree I don't want to hit 2 pair here, don't know what I was thinking... just trips or straight... what do you do in this situation?

So two people have given me two very different ways to play the hand so far... anyone else care to chime in?

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]

- But there's a flush draw out there, so I basically need to raise or fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a tough hand to play out of position. I don't have all the answers, but I will say that your reasoning above is poor. After checking the flop, calling is much better than folding and raising is tough because you are creating a large pot that you will still be playing out of position on the turn.

"Charging" a flush draw is not a requirement on every suited flop. I'm not convinced our pot equity on the flop is high enough to play this hand for all our chips. The turn card will have a significant effect on our equity, why not just call at this point and see what the turn brings?

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would bet out because of the flush draw, but the check/raise looks good too. You have to raise the flop. I'd bump it up to 250 or so. And I'm calling if he pushes. If not, I'm pushing on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right now, we have TPWK and and OESD. But there's two to a flush and there could easily be two pair, TP better kicker, flush draw out there.

This pot is small at this point. I like either calling or (gasp) folding. (I would call, but folding would not be a disaster here IMO.) I'm certainly NOT raising at this point. I'd probably just call and see what the turn brings. Keep this pot small for now. I think that raising here is a huge mistake, since there is a decent chance that we are not currently ahead AND raising isn't making both of them go away.

I guess part of my reasoning is this: the typical player on the 22s basically sucks. No need to get knee deep OOP on a scary board when we may or may not be ahead. See what the turn brings, then re-evaluate, IMO.

[pineapple888]

This is a good but not great hand. You may be ahead, but you may be behind, and none of your draws are to the nuts.

With a good but not great hand, you generally want to bet out to try to narrow the field or maybe take it down right there.

So bet the flop, fold to a substantial re-raise, re-evaluate otherwise on the turn.

[Seadood228]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you check the flop? Are you hoping that it gets checked all the way through?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the odds that you'll take this down on the flop are approximately nil, imo. All you are doing is potentially building a large pot OOP.

I like 45suited's line. And like him I could also find a fold here at times.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think I would bet out because of the flush draw, but the check/raise looks good too. You have to raise the flop. I'd bump it up to 250 or so. And I'm calling if he pushes. If not, I'm pushing on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right now, we have TPWK and and OESD. But there's two to a flush and there could easily be two pair, TP better kicker, flush draw out there.

This pot is small at this point. I like either calling or (gasp) folding. (I would call, but folding would not be a disaster here IMO.) I'm certainly NOT raising at this point. I'd probably just call and see what the turn brings. Keep this pot small for now. I think that raising here is a huge mistake, since there is a decent chance that we are not currently ahead AND raising isn't making both of them go away.

I guess part of my reasoning is this: the typical player on the 22s basically sucks. No need to get knee deep OOP on a scary board when we may or may not be ahead. See what the turn brings, then re-evaluate, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I absolutely agree.