Do you think the pros are becoming obsolete?

This was partly inspired by a post in General Theory as to whether casino pros were dinosaurs and partly by D. N.'s latest blog entry where he detailed his disdain with his opponent after he was brought down to a short stack. It seems that the internet has created a new player mold that eclipses those old foheys which is why you have players like Giga and Takeover placing so deep in their first few big live tournies.

I don't know if it is the immense concentration or the number of hands they are seeing but it seems to me that the reign of the old pros has ended.

I would be interested to hear your opinions.

[istewart]

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Are some internet players pros?


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Yes.

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Are some internet players pros?


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Yes.

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And casino pros will always be around. Polltard.

ever consider that the internet pros and casino pros are the same people except for the pimple faced kids who can't yet buy beer.

[Niediam]

It's hard for internet players not to do well when you have some fields (such as WPT Aruba) where 95%+ of the participants won a satilite online.

[dibbs]

I'm gonna ahead and assume you're specifically talking about "live pros" Live prose.

Anyways, there is no doubt that playing like 10k tourney hands a day with thorough analysis of play will build some very young and very tough tourney players. At the same time however, placing deep in their first few live tourneys requires a great amount of luck as well IMO.

No disrespect of course, as I know some of the young tourney guys like Giga and ZJ are very good players.

[Atropos]

I think in 10-15 years all the pros will become replaced with internet pros. They are much better, have more experience because they have seen much more hands and tells are overrated anyways.

[xxx]

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I think in 10-15 years all the pros will become replaced with internet pros. They are much better, have more experience because they have seen much more hands and tells are overrated anyways.

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Ya, in 15 years new players will be the best. Just like it is in all sports (baseball, football, basketball, etc.) or competitions (chess, science, music, etc.) and has been with poker in the past. Internet has nothing to do with it.

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It's hard for internet players not to do well when you have some fields (such as WPT Aruba) where 95%+ of the participants won a satilite online.

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nh

[Copernicus]

Experienced casino pros will always have an advantage over strictly internet players. There are skills developed live that are not developed online. The impact of online play is to accelerate the learning curve tremendously, and online players will move much more quickly up the ranks of casino pros when they make the migration.

In 10 more years there will be no such thing as a pure casino pro.

[sng-sam]

With the number of final tables that Doyle Brunson made lately I would say they are still a force to be dealt with. However I think that at some point most pros will be hybrid players combining B&M play with Internet Play. But I do think that the poster who said that B&M pros have skills that can't be learned online is accurate.

Straight Flushes,

SAM

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In 10 more years there will be no such thing as a pure casino pro.

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If certain pinhead Congresspersons have their way, in 10 years (or sooner) there won't be any online pros in the U.S.

Internet players, not playing in front of live players, have not learned the art of reading player tells and also reducing the number of tells that they give off. This is a major trait required at the high level live games and tourneys. Most pure internet players do not have this skill of reading live players becasue they have not had much experience doing that. Some pros are experts on tell reads.

No knock on Gigabet' skills whatsoever, but he had at least 3 major suckouts with all his chips on the line to double up and stay in that tourney. So it's not like he dominated his way into the final table, scaring the crap out of the pros in the process. Again, no knock on Gigabet, from what I understand he's a genius, just taking on the OPs original postulation

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No knock on Gigabet' skills whatsoever, but he had at least 3 major suckouts with all his chips on the line to double up and stay in that tourney. So it's not like he dominated his way into the final table, scaring the crap out of the pros in the process. Again, no knock on Gigabet, from what I understand he's a genius, just taking on the OPs original postulation

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Doing this is pretty much required for anyone at all, pro's included to get that deep in a tournament.

Right. Which is what makes it so ludicrous to try to use Gigabet's showing in one tourney as some kind of evidence that the pros are becoming obsolete.

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Right. Which is what makes it so ludicrous to try to use Gigabet's showing in one tourney as some kind of evidence that the pros are becoming obsolete.

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isn't it ludicrous because gigabet is a pro?

[MicroBob]

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In 10 more years there will be no such thing as a pure casino pro.

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there are lots of people who prefer to play mid-high stakes live (sometimes against total drunks) then stay at home all night clicking buttons.

Sure you can get it more hands at home....but the profit potential from a good, live 80/160 game at Bellagio or Commerce or wherever is not to be ignored.

Also....I suspect that guys like Greenstein, Ivey and others will still be playing that $4k/$8k game (probably higher than that actually) for a long time to come.
I guess both play on the internet occasionally...but for them when they do play it doesn't really mean anything.

Kind of like when I play live 3/6 it doesn't really mean anything for me.

That too, alhtough I think the OP was implicitly referring to "old guard" B&M pros.

[swarm]

It's just a numbers game...

Think of how many thousands of new players have been introduced to poker over the internet. 95% of the internet players are still donkey's but 5% are a special beed. These naturally gifted poker players may have never found poker were it not for the internet.

Internet isn't necessarily making better players, it has just increased the amount of "new blood" being incorproated in the pro scene so more and more young guys are going to be making a splash.

It seems like the old pros are still very well represented at final tables.

I've seen a pattern in other gaming communities where the best start getting compensated off-table and immediately nose-dive because they can't plausibly be as dedicated as they once were.

I think the next few years will see the 03-04 generation of poker stars (Lederer, Negreanu, Hellmuth, Hansen, Duke etc) evolving into 'hosts' of a sort for the poker world. Their familliar faces will lend legitimacy in the public mind while younger, hungrier players take their place at the top. With so much of their time once spent at the tables now used for promotional work, the fall is inevitable. The fact that kids are playing out of diapers now should also lend to the present level of top-tier play becoming obselete.

[kenberman]

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Their familliar faces will lend legitimacy in the public mind while younger, hungrier players take their place at the top. With so much of their time once spent at the tables now used for promotional work, the fall is inevitable.

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whether or not that is a 'fall' is questionable

I can see how internet play has led to a spurt in the evolution of poker strategy, but until the legalities are cleared up, I wouldn't put money on the long-term health of on-line poker play.

[threepines]

The pattern is not one in which old casino pros are being replaced by up and coming young internet stars. The pattern is that the tournament pros who were hot yesterday are no longer hot today. This is a pattern that will persist because of the tremendous luck that is involved in beating todays enormous tournament fields.

A changing of the guard in the biggest live games would be a pattern worth noting.

[Johnnyj580]

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I'm gonna ahead and assume you're specifically talking about "live pros" Live prose.



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NH

I WILL NEVER BECOME ABSOLUTE.
DO YOU KNOW WHO THE F U CK I AM?

ABSOLETE ABSOLUTE WTF WHTF

[livinitup0]

My opinion is that this post is retarded.
Pro's obsolete? Does that even make any sense?

Is this an age issue? If it is go play Brunson......icckk that sounds too "mainstream poker" ...go play the guy with the cane at any random casino....he'll usually kick your ass.