Bottom set

[imported_Jim C]

Hi everyone, please comment, particularly on the river action, but anywhere really.

Button is a TAG. I have only 70 hands on him, but his play is solid. My stats on him, for what they're worth are 26/15/2.2.

The small blind is the fish of fish, and the reason I'm in the game (55/5.5/0.3). This is a truly terrible player.

I flop bottom set and the passive fish leads. I know a raise will put SB in check/call mode, and will likely fold out the TAG. I go for the overcall on the flop and turn, intending to put a raise in on the river. I don't like the river cap, but can't find the coconuts to fold. I have a set, the pot is small, I don't feel I need to protect my hand, and feel I should encourage the overcalls.

I lost with 6 out of 9 sets last night (I'm not telling which category this one is in), so I'd like some input to how I played this one.

Thanks,

Jim

Party Poker 10.00/20.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(5 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Jim is UTG with 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Jim calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4.00 SB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Jim bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB folds, Jim calls, Button calls.

Turn: (5.00 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Jim calls, Button calls.

River: (8.00 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Jim calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Jim 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, SB calls, Jim calls.

Final Pot: 20.00 BB.

[sthief09]

fold preflop, 3-bet the flop. river will play differently but as is, raise the first time and don't raise the second time. fish has JJ, TT, or JT and button would have raised the flop with J8 so he has T8 and called a passive player's c/r followed by turn bet with middle pair, or he has the nuts

[milesdyson]

fold preflop. but

why did you not either

3-bet the flop
or
raise the turn?

also put the tag on a hand when he just calls your flop bet... honestly i can only think of 98 or Q9, so i don't get why you're so eager to keep him "overcalling."

button pwns you with the Q9 on the river, but the main problem is how cheaply you allowed him to draw.

[imported_Jim C]

The fish had T4o.

I have been playing small pairs 22-55 in these games because (in general) I expect unreasonable action postflop that compensates for not getting the preflop odds to try to flop a set. I believe this game is filled with overaggression and this should make small sets profitable. When you say fold preflop, what else are you folding here? All of 22-55?

Why raise the flop? Doesn't this ensure a win of 1 more sb from the SB and 2 BB from the sb? Don't we make more leaving the button in the hand? If this should not be our objective, why is that?

Not trying to be argumentative, I really want to understand the reasoning behind your comments.

I agree that my second raise on the river was excessive.

Thanks,

Jim

[sthief09]

you don't want the button in the hand on a JTx board, especially when he called one bet with 2 players behind him. either he's slowplaying top 2 or he has a draw. plus callers like to call. give them more bets to call. you don't need to play so fancy. fast play wins more money

as for the limp, in any 5-handed game any time it is almost (99.99999999%) right to open limp UTG. you pretty much need a 5-way pot to make 22 playable. you are in a 5-handed game. more often than not you get yourself isolated and end up getting outplayed because your pair of twos might be good

[imported_Jim C]

I felt my hand was strong enough, and the pot was small enough, that I would win more leaving the button in the hand.

I can definitely see that I should have raised the turn or 3-bet the flop here.

If the button has OESD, he'll probably draw anyway and I can charge him the max. Is this correct thinking, or are you guys saying that I should be trying to get the hand heads-up with SB?

Thanks,

Jim

[imported_Jim C]

Josh, this makes perfect sense to me. Thank you for elaborating.

Also, you were saying that an open-limp is *wrong* 99.9999% of the time, correct?

Thanks again you guys,

Jim

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
Josh, this makes perfect sense to me. Thank you for elaborating.

Also, you were saying that an open-limp is *wrong* 99.9999% of the time, correct?

Thanks again you guys,

Jim

[/ QUOTE ]


yeah, forgot the word 'wrong' in there

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
I felt my hand was strong enough, and the pot was small enough, that I would win more leaving the button in the hand.

I can definitely see that I should have raised the turn or 3-bet the flop here.

If the button has OESD, he'll probably draw anyway and I can charge him the max. Is this correct thinking, or are you guys saying that I should be trying to get the hand heads-up with SB?


[/ QUOTE ]


i think your error is in assuming that a slowplay will win you more money (though i don't understand why you never raised). people think they're being tricky by slowplaying, but in general it is not best. not only does it fail to protect your hand but in general, people give excess action on the flop and not enough on the turn. you can exploit this by playing your hands fast on the flop. the problem with slowplaying until the turn is that sometimes a scare card will come and it will be checked to you, and you won't get as much action from good hands. players need much closer to the nuts to raise the turn than the flop. when playing shorthanded you should almost completely forget about slowplaying.