For all the Anti-Shaq clan out there...

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/webb/020612.html


read that article. Sorry I don't know html, so I had to copy and paste it for you.


If you don't like Shaq, you'll love that article. If you do like Shaq, if you read the article you will continue to watch him with blinders on, or you will come to your senses.


Josh

I don't like the Lakers, and I've always disliked Shaq.


However, the author of that article makes very few valid (read: accurate) points.


Why should he have to shoot 3 pointers and 15 foot jump shots? If I were coaching him, I'd get pissed if he didn't dunk it too.


His defense is exceptional. He is the best passing big man in the game, something he used to abolutely suck at. He runs the court, and contrary to the article, he acutally does have handles.


People still talk about Chamberlain as one of the 2 or 3 best players ever, and he sucked at free throws too.


Look, if you had a draft of players in the league to create a new team for one year, Shaq is everyone's first pick. Including yours, I would assume. So why slam the guy?

Would Shaq be my first pick?


Well, if he could abhorrantly break the rules as he does now, Absolutely, no doubt about it. Otherwise, Gimme KG, TMac, the Truth, Kobe, Payton, Dirk Diggler OR EVEN BEN WALLACE. Rasheed. Kwame Brown. Darius Miles. Or one of a host of others.


How could Jason Kidd break/manipulate the rules to his advantage? Iverson? Payton? McGrady? Carter? They can't. Big guys can.


Some players are good enough to play within the rules. Others aren't.


Josh

You'd consider taking Ben Wallace or Dirk Nowitzki

over Shaq? With Wallace, the fact that he's not a scoring threat is such a huge liability. Can a team be great while playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end every time down the court? The Celtics answer was "no". Say what you want about the Lakers role players. Devean George, Rick Fox, and Derek Fisher can all score if unguarded. As for Nowitzki, did you watch any of the Dallas/Sacramento series? He was exposed as one of the worst defensive players in the league and was one of the biggest reasons the Kings were scoring 100 points with ease. Kwame Brown over Shaq? Huh?

I totally agree with the rule breaking, mostly with offensive fouls that are not called.


In fact I don't understand how he gets away with it. It is no good for the NBA to promote this kind of star. The other centers in the league don't seem to get the special treatment either.


D.

"Can a team be great while playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end every time down the court?"


How bout the 96-98 bulls.

I've felt this way for years.


If shaq was 6'8" he'd only average 8 points a game.


Ryan

Good point. I suppose I should qualified my comment with "...unless that team has the greatest scoring guard in history and two guys that can go for 20 on any given night". The Pistons simply didn't have the firepower to overcome Wallace's offensive shortcomings.

Like I said, if the league changed such that the rulebook was enforced, Shaq would only be a little better than Wallace. He'd be (as he currently is) worse defensively and on the boards, and he'd only be a little bit better offensively.


And, if I'm a GM, one of the huge things I consider is age. Dirk and Kwame or so freakin' young, that this has to enter the equation. I never said that they are better (although, I'd take Dirk over Shaq in a rules-enforced league...and get him George Karl as a coach)


Josh

Shaq gets more non calls on fouls that are commited against him than anyone in the league. it almost seems like refs think that the standard is raised since he's so big.

as for the offensive fouls, much of what people complain about aren't even charges! the defender has to establish position, and if he gets creamed while trying to get there, it's his bad.

I am aware of the rules but it doesn't seem true what you are saying, based on the Sac. and NJ series mostly.


D.

I don't think Vlade running towards Shaq and then flopping constitutes establishing position.

"I don't deserve to have a 'D' in my name" Dirk?


George "I can finish .500 with the chalk in the weakest conference ever" Karl?


OK, now you're just being silly.

Man, you are tremendous at taking words out of context...I mean that in the nicest possible way.


I didn't say that Karl was the greatest coach since Auerback (or Jackson, as some think). But he is a GREAT defensive minded coach, and even got Robinson playing some D while they were contending. That is an AMAZING feat, that you really shouldn't downplay.


Anybody with that size, atheleticism, and youth can learn how to play at least mediocre defense. I can't believe that you are denying this.


Josh

You planning on addressing the times when he does have position established? This may not be 100% of the time, but 60% is a fair estimate.


You planning on addressing the hooking? That is his biggest crime.


You planning on addressing the over-the-back on a huge percentage of his rebounds?


Or do you just want to glaze over the facts? I don't mean that as an insult. I mean, merely, to imply that I assume you are a Lakers fan.


Josh

I think the fact that I've always been a laker fan has already been established by my posts on this and similar subjects. I also think that it happens to Shaq as much as it happens by him. You don't notice the times he gets no-called because he's so big, but, if you really want to play fair, both situations should be called. Just because Shaq doesn't go flying doesn't mean he wasn't fouled.

Shaq isn't the only guy walking.. Iverson and Carter et al take about a hundred steps on their drives to the hoop, and then when a big man taps them they throw their arms up in the air like they've been shot..


Shaq does break the rules, no question about it, but so do the guys guarding him, as well as many other players in the league..


The guy is the most amazing big man in a long time, and big men are part of the game just like huge linemen are part of football..


Quit your whining and get a clue

Anybody who knows a lick about defense knows that, as you say, it's mostly about athleticism..


The same person will also know that most of the good defensive players have been around at least five years, and simply stunk at D their first few seasons comparitively..


We'll have to wait and see if Karl is the coach people think he is because I don't think their is a man alive that can contain the egos on the Bucs..

Shaq does hook, that is obvious, but I think he gets smoked just as much.. In the NJ series especially, he had Collins arms in his face while his back was to him the whole time.. Same deal with Macullough.. If we are going to call the rules here to a tee then we need to do it both ways..


As for over the back on a huge percentage of his rebounds, come on.. Are you talking offensive? I see Shaq go over the back once or twice a game tops.. True, he should not get away with it, but it is hardly game changing..


By simply attacking Shaq's size and strength, are you saying that strength should be removed from the game?? It seems that way..


The guys on the PGA tour all had to start lifting when Tiger showed up, perhaps it's time for guys like Vlade and Bradley to start hitting the weights..

I don't like Shaq but the arguments in this article are insane.


Why should he shoot 3's?


His assist to turnover ratio is super misleading. He is double or tripled teamed and his pass out of the post is not designed to get an open shot. If it were like Hockey, he would get the secondary assist. His pass from the post sets up the second pass to the weak side as the defense shifts to the strong side.


Why the hell does he have to play defense 15' from the basket in open space? He should be playing other centers who have woeful shooting %'s from the foul line or further.


Who is going to steal the ball from and why? He doesn't have to deny the entry pass. On the block, your not going to torch him one on one and why pick up stupid fouls reaching in.


He is not 6'1. If he were, he would have developed other skills. I've seen Shaq lead the fast break at 7'2. He has soft hands and does have good footwork. That has changed since his foot and toe injuries though.


His game is what it is because that is what he does well. Sure he commits offensive fouls but they are not called so really there is no foul. When they start calling the offensive, he'll change his game again and adapt.


Two years ago against Portland, he played against an aging A. Sabonis. He wasn't able to push him around down low so he started shooting and making his jump hooks etc. He adapted.

Kurt Vonnegut's short story "Harrison Bergeron," and then go back and read the article again carefully.

i think the appeal here is to things beyond raw stats. of course the big guy is gonna be able to dunk it in everyone's face.


style points, Shaq is LAST on my list. i hate him. if i cared at all about the game, i would hate him with my very soul.

"Why should he shoot 3's"


The article doesn't say he should, the article said if he were 6'1" he'd have to, and he CANT, therefore he wouldn't make it in the NBA.


Ryan

that 'oh if shaq were 6'1" he'd suck' argument is quite possibly THE most inane comment I've heard in quite some time. If Randy Johnson didn't throw so hard, he wouldn't be dominating. If Cris Carter didn't have great hands, he wouldn't catch a single pass. If Ichiro weren't so fast, he'd just be another utility outfielder.


What kind of ridiculous nonsense is that? Some people are blessed with incredible physical gifts, some are not. That's just the way things are. Shaq happens to be very big, always has been. As such, his game has always been that of a big man. He's never been asked to shoot 3's, why? Same reason Wilt, Kareem, and Hakeem have never done that. Shaq is NOT 6'1". He's 7'1". And he's huge. And yes, that's one of the reasons (if not the main reason) he's so dominant. But to keep 'if if if'ing about him is just meaningless.

Throwing fast, having great hands, and being fast are all, TALENTS + SKILLS. Being big is NOT a talent or skill.


Ryan

Being able to move better than the other so called "big" men in the league when he is like 50 pounds heavier than them is talent..


Time for the other centres in the league to hit the weight room..

I didn't say anything about talents or skills. I said 'physical gifts'. Can everyone throw 100+mph? Can everyone run to first base in 3.7 seconds? Is everyone 7'1"? I don't see any difference between all of them. Some people are just more physically blessed than others, and so it's pointless to say 'if if if' about that.

I haven't watched much NBA ball lately. I'm from Denver. The Nuggets suck. 'nuff said.

However, the traveling rule hasn't been enforced for a long time. If you're shooting or passing, you're supposed to get a step and a jump, and release the ball before a foot comes down. It seems like you have to take 3 or 4 steps with the ball before there's a whistle.