$22 Level 50/100, holding 99, now what?

[1C5]

In my mind this is a push or fold play but there are so many people left to act behind me. Is this just a SNG Powertools problem or is there more to it?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t1863)
SB (t820)
BB (t1170)
UTG (t687)
Hero (t1045)
MP1 (t1250)
MP2 (t280)
CO (t885)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, HERO?

[splashpot]

I usually push this.

[tigerite]

Seems like a push to me, too.

[sng-sam]

Can you two tell me why you like a push here? I hate having 99 in UTG+1 with 10BB.

1. My stack is big enough I'm not quite in jeaopardy yet
2. A standard raise hurts if I have to fold
3. An all in with this many to act after me is just too scary.

I've thrown out everything I "thought" I knew about SNG's so please help me "relearn"

Straight Flushes,

SAM

[MarkL444]

[ QUOTE ]

In my mind this is a push or fold play but there are so many people left to act behind me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't you limp? I'm not saying I would, but a limp may make the hand easier to navigate. You could possibly get a push from someone behind you trying to steal the blimds+your limp with a marginal hand that you can pick off. Or if perhaps there is another limp you can get a peak of the flop before committing your stack.

[tigerite]

Ok. First thing - it is absolutely unexploitable to push here (it doesn't matter one jot what they call with). So, if we know that is a +$EV play, folding is out. Therefore what else can we do here. Limp? Well, we have only 10BB and a raise is going to put us in a right pickle. Raise? Any re-raise we are going to have to call anyway, because we're pot committed. And we lose FE on both of these options..

So, in she goes.

[sng-sam]

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(it doesn't matter one jot what they call with)

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Elaborate pleas? Thanks.

SAM

[tigerite]

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In my mind this is a push or fold play but there are so many people left to act behind me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't you limp? I'm not saying I would, but a limp may make the hand easier to navigate. You could possibly get a push from someone behind you trying to steal the blimps+your limp with a marginal hand that you can pick off. Or if perhaps there is another limp you can get a peak of the flop before committing your stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

99 really is not the kind of hand to be "trapping" with like this. If anyone raises or pushes then it's just not a nice situation to be in, we're either slightly ahead or way behind (except for the odd occasion they have 77 or 88 I suppose). Plus it may very easily produce a whole load of other limps, and then we're going to be facing a flop OOP with at least a third of our stack's worth of chips in the pot, with the possibility of people having hit sets, having draws, some part of the board (especially a problem with 99 because so much of the time an overcard will be on the flop), and as always, the chance to be bluffed off the best hand. It would be impossible, IMHO, to play well enough post-flop against even just the blinds here long-term to gain enough $EV from what we lose from pushing. Remember a push and the blinds will almost certainly fold stuff like KT, QJ, QT which when we're facing a flop of AT5 is going to be just terrible for our 9's should we limp.

Limping is really, really bad here.

[tigerite]

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(it doesn't matter one jot what they call with)

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Elaborate pleas? Thanks.

SAM

[/ QUOTE ]

Feel free to give them again any ranges, from JJ+,AK+ to some ridiculously loose range (it might even be any two, but I didn't bother to go down that low, because no way will they call with crap like 87 sooted and even if they do - that's great for you), they can't have a range - any of them, all of them, whatever - to stop this being +$EV.

[splashpot]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you two tell me why you like a push here? I hate having 99 in UTG+1 with 10BB.

1. My stack is big enough I'm not quite in jeaopardy yet
2. A standard raise hurts if I have to fold
3. An all in with this many to act after me is just too scary.

I've thrown out everything I "thought" I knew about SNG's so please help me "relearn"

Straight Flushes,

SAM

[/ QUOTE ]
You have 10BB, but your blind is coming up so you'll be down to 900 pretty soon. Not a disaster, but the blinds will be going up to 75/150 soon so you'll be getting somewhat desperate. I estimate that half the time you're called the villian will have overcards and half the time he'll have a higher pair. But the vast majority of the time, you'll just steal the blinds. Which works great for you.

A push is better than a standard raise because you're not inviting a call, yet you still have to call if anyone pushes over your raise.

[tigerite]

It's not even to do with that splash, it's simply an unexploitable push. The kind of hands we live for in SNG's.

[splashpot]

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In my mind this is a push or fold play but there are so many people left to act behind me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't you limp? I'm not saying I would, but a limp may make the hand easier to navigate. You could possibly get a push from someone behind you trying to steal the blimds+your limp with a marginal hand that you can pick off. Or if perhaps there is another limp you can get a peak of the flop before committing your stack.

[/ QUOTE ]
And yea, what tigerite said. Limping is very very bad with these stacks/blinds. Possibly the worst out of all your options.

[splashpot]

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It's not even to do with that splash, it's simply an unexploitable push. The kind of hands we live for in SNG's.

[/ QUOTE ]
True. I didn't read all that other stuff before I posted. I see nothing wrong with what you said.

[1C5]

Thanks guys!!

[tigerite]

No problem.. it might surprise you to learn that 88 is borderline here and 77 is a fold, though..

[1C5]

Good to know also.

I will push AK here and AQ most of the time also, AJ and worse, I will fold, is that decent?

[Freudian]

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Good to know also.

I will push AK here and AQ most of the time also, AJ and worse, I will fold, is that decent?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems ok to me. I fold AQ in spots like this most of the time. If I think both players to the left of me are exploitable I'd rather fold than to push AQ into loads of people.

[tigerite]

AQo is a blatant push (and so, therefore, AKo obviously is too and their suited equivalents). AJo comes back with the same figures as 88 - it's very borderline. Basically you hope they all are tight up to the blinds and then it doesn't matter. You should, however, push AJs.

[tigerite]

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Good to know also.

I will push AK here and AQ most of the time also, AJ and worse, I will fold, is that decent?

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Seems ok to me. I fold AQ in spots like this most of the time. If I think both players to the left of me are exploitable I'd rather fold than to push AQ into loads of people.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a leak I'm afraid.. again AQo push here = doesn't matter if they call with 22+,A2+,K7o+,K2s+,QTo+,Q9s+,JTs (I didn't go any further than that)

[jeffraider]

I think I agree with tigerite and splashpot on basically every hand ever posted.

[curtains]

I just move allin.