Could I be in an uglier spot with an overpair? [Archive]

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Harv72b

12-17-2005, 01:24 AM

A hand I played earlier today. UTG has respectable TAG numbers over a decent sample size, but my notes on him say that he has real problems folding his PFR hands postflop. MP3 is unknown and joined the table less than orbit prior.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises, 4 folds, MP3 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)

Okay, smart guys....what's our street by street plan on this one?

I mean, besides backdooring a royal flush. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Maulik

12-17-2005, 01:45 AM

how about check/calling because you are against 2pair, straight, and flush draws. You don't want to put lots of money in versus the made straight or the 2 pair hands. Unfortunately it will be tough if not impossible to deceipher who is on the flush draw.

squeek12

12-17-2005, 02:05 AM

don't play 5/10, but i would checkraise the flop and lead the turn if not played back at. if it gets three bet, we have a discounted straight draw due to the likelyhood that there AK is very likely to be one of our opponents holdings.

if we check and it's two back to us, i would most likely flat call and see what happens from there.

this could be horrible, but getting flamed would be equally as helpful as being right.

12-17-2005, 07:28 AM

I check/call the flop.

You're not worried about giving free/cheap cards and the 3bettors range has you crushed at the moment.

The turn is dependant on action and card.

bobhalford

12-17-2005, 12:30 PM

I would just call here and hope to hit a /images/graemlins/club.gif on the turn for your backdoor flush. AK/AA is such a distinct possibility that you don't want to put in too many bets with this hand.

hobbsmann

12-17-2005, 12:37 PM

ewwww this flop is gross. While check/calling after capping preflop seems weak I think this is probably the best play here, but make sure you concentrate on turning the A/images/graemlins/club.gif as well (this is important).

toss

12-17-2005, 02:41 PM

Seems like a good spot to check/call donw unless we make a straight. Very good chance we're behind to a better hand.

chief444

12-17-2005, 02:52 PM

c/c. If flop by some miracle checks through, bet turn. If MP3's the only one doing the betting then I'm probably check/calling the river as well if two blanks fall since he's unknown. The only times you're ahead here the opponent's don't have many outs. You're likely behind and drawing. So I really see no reason to put in more bets than necessary on the flop.

Harv72b

12-17-2005, 02:54 PM

Y'all should know that I never check the flop after capping preflop. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises, 4 folds, MP3 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (7.70 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Ummmm....okay?

EDIT: Check/call is probably the best line here. I just very rarely convince myself to check the flop after raising, let alone capping.

chief444

12-17-2005, 03:06 PM

I guess now you bet/call again.

toss

12-17-2005, 03:14 PM

Lets see he's either slowplaying or has one of three hands: AQ, 99, KK. AA may be playing cautiously here. Anoyone think I'm crazy for wanting to check here?

Edit: Talking about the turn.

bobhalford

12-17-2005, 03:14 PM

now I would check it for fear of a check-raise. If AA/QQ/JJ/TT are out there, they are afraid you have AK or a higher set but are calling in hopes of filling up or holding up at showdown (when you have AA/KK). But they may not bet the turn for fear that you are trapping them with AK. Your flop bet may have bought you a free card on the turn.

Harv72b

12-17-2005, 11:43 PM

Everyone that's advocating checking the turn...what do we do if it's checked through and the river is a blank?

If it's 2 bets back to us?

If UTG checks and MP3 bets it?

That was my point in posting this hand (well, that and I wasn't really sure about the way I did play it). This is a situations where we probably got outflopped, but any other hand short of AK is still going to be nervous about putting in bets. And if by some miracle we are still good, hands like AQ will probably justify calling another on the turn, and maybe making a crying call on the river as well.

I thought it made for a really interesting scenario.

12-18-2005, 03:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess now you bet/call again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nick C

12-18-2005, 04:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Y'all should know that I never check the flop after capping preflop. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises, 4 folds, MP3 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (7.70 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Ummmm....okay?

[/ QUOTE ]

One way of looking at it is that someone made the obligatory flop bet (if it hadn't been you, it probably would have been someone else), and now it's time for the real action to start on the turn.

That's how it often works, isn't it?

I don't think we necessarily know much more now about where we stand than we knew on the flop.

Nick C

12-18-2005, 04:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A hand I played earlier today. UTG has respectable TAG numbers over a decent sample size, but my notes on him say that he has real problems folding his PFR hands postflop. MP3 is unknown and joined the table less than orbit prior.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises, 4 folds, MP3 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, UTG calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)

Okay, smart guys....what's our street by street plan on this one?

I mean, besides backdooring a royal flush. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Lovely. One difficulty here is that if you bet, you're not going to learn much. Preflop raising hands can find a reason to call, 3-betting hands (even AQ) can as well, and we can't rule out a semibluff-raise from a hand like KQ.

Whether your opponents call or raise, it's going to be hard to figure out what that means.