Is this push OK?

[jes123]

Villain and I had butted heads a few times and I read his raise as a move on the limpers. I figured if he happened to have the cards to call, I would most likely be in a race. I haven't pulled this type of move before, but the situation felt right. I would like to hear comments before I do it again.

Thanks.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t1970)
BB (t1292)
UTG (t1805)
UTG+1 (t925)
Hero (t2975)
MP1 (t750)
MP2 (t5585)
MP3 (t2170)
CO (t1650)
Button (t4702)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t50, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls t50, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t425</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t2975</font>

What stakes were you playing? Had Villain made moves like this before? What made you think he was making a move?

[rockythecat99]

BB is not folding here after putting in almost half his stack. Not a good spot for an all in

I don't like it. By choosing to open limp, you've only put 50 bucks in and will have to risk 1200. He raised 1/3 of his stack, therefore, I think your fold equity is 0. You'll be either a slight favorite or a big dog, fold. You have a healthy chipstack and don't need to take gambles like this. Even if you had raised to t150 and he reraised all in, I'd still fold due to your chip position.

[jes123]

This was the PartyPoker Friday Special ($200+15). I thought he was making a move for a few reasons: He had pulled a pretty bold bluff in an earlier hand that he showed. I came over the top of one of his recent steals when in the big blind. Finally, the size of the raise made me think that he did not want a call.

[betgo]

The problem is that the size of the raise pot commits him. If he made a smaller raise, then sure push on a resteal representing aces. Also, when someone makes a raise that pot commits himself, I would not necessarily interpret that as weakness. He could have AJ-AK, KQ, or 88-QQ, and want to take the pot down or make it expensive to play.

[jes123]

After reading the replies, I will definitely not try this again. In the hand, the button actually ended up calling my all-in with JJ and the BB folded. I fully expected the BB to call, but did not see the button playing JJ this way.

I find that I am improving lately in a lot of areas, adding new moves to my arsenal, taking down pots that I never would have before, but at the same time some of the things I try end up making my stack vanish.

It sucks to bust out with a healthy stack on a move like this, but at least I am finding new moves to bust out on and not repeating the old /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks.

Dude find a better spot than that...you're willing to bet almost your whole stack that hes on a steal when you still have 55-60 BB?? I just fold this one, no reason to bust yourself here. If you had a stack of about 8000 I could see possibly making this play b/c I like to bludgeon the small guys, but otherwise I just call and evaluate on the flop or preferably fold it. Bad luck that button is enough of a donk to call the jacks preflop b/c it seems that your play may have worked. Regardless, I just fold the pair here. Not much need defending my $50 when it was only 1/60 of my stack to begin with.

P.S. Races suck. Get it in as a favorite. I like to see a flop when I'm making this sort of move; if you really put him on a steal (this requires position obviously) just see the flop and move in if the board has a good texture. This has worked for me plenty of times in the past. Note I don't recommend the stop and go (puttin all your chips in no matter what flops) because lots of players try to "semi-steal" with some moderate hands (i.e. ace-x, suited connectors), but depending on a read I would consider moving in after the flop to put him to the test.

Steve

EDIT: I'm glad to see you're trying new moves...ballsy of you to try them in the $200 game though /images/graemlins/cool.gif. Wish I had the cajones to do that.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
Bad luck that button is enough of a donk to call the jacks preflop b/c it seems that your play may have worked.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB would have called the limpraise, as he was pot committed. When OP limpraised and button called, he correctly deduced that he was in trouble.

It is great to try moves, but with this one doesn't have much chance of working.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm glad to see you're trying new moves...ballsy of you to try them in the $200 game though

[/ QUOTE ]

Better to try a move in the $200 than in the $5 rebuy.

[jes123]

Well, this move will definitely be retired. You are right that there are much better spots and my stack gave me plenty of time.

I agree with betgo that moves are more likely to work in the higher buy-ins (unless of course there are tons of qualifiers at your table early on). I'll try not to discover some new way of blowing my stack in the Party Million Guaranteed this afternoon /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[jes123]

Is that such a bad thing if the BB calls? I figured I would most likely be in a race in that case and at the time I was OK with that.

One thing I have tried to pin down is when a race is good or not. I avoided them when first starting out and now I have probably gone a little too far the other way.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, this move will definitely be retired. You are right that there are much better spots and my stack gave me plenty of time.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's a good move. You had a read on the BB and the limpraise represents aces. If the BB had raised to 250, it would be a fine play. Just don't try this on an opponent who is pot committed.

[jes123]

Ok, so if I encounter the exact same situation but with a smaller raise from BB, should I be worried about the button or SB? I didn't worry about them at all in this hand, but should I?

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so if I encounter the exact same situation but with a smaller raise from BB, should I be worried about the button or SB? I didn't worry about them at all in this hand, but should I?

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally not in the $200 tournament, although anything can happen when you push at limpers. Button's play with JJ was very fishy.

Normally if someone limped with 99, they would have the sense to fold to 2 raises. The only thing you should be worried about from a good player is that the button could be trapping as the second limper with AA.