Friday nights are ridic

[silkyslim]

SO pf, flop, turn i have some options. no brainer fold on the river?? turn 3 bettor is unknown, the rest of the table is brain dead to poker.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(8 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(8 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Button calls, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

River: (19 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 22 BB

[Maulik]

why did you raise the turn? you don't need to isolate here?

[silkyslim]

[ QUOTE ]
why did you raise the turn? you don't need to isolate here?

[/ QUOTE ]
to win even if i dont hit my heart? maybe a weak ace will fold? now that i think about it , you are right!@

[GHL]

um... you're the weak A.... a isn't limping with A rag suited UTG a bad move? Do people fold weak As in 2/4? Not on friday night they don't.

I don't like the flop play at all... not in this position... in LP with a bunch of limpers..... you're forced to hit a flush draw and a flush draw only... without position... it is much harder to get paid off with your flushes in EP... we'll a a-5 str is probably good too.. but your A has almost no value in a 2/4 game especially on the weekend where you're gonna get 300 callers... once you flop the flush draw I like the lead on the flop... you want a lot of callers and a pot built for the times you hit... the raise on the turn is questionable... but you did lead the flop....

in some poker literature there are reasons to raise... thin the field, build a pot, free card... and you're probably not thinning the field here... and there is no such thing as a free card in this pot...

[silkyslim]

[ QUOTE ]
um... you're the weak A.... a isn't limping with A rag suited UTG a bad move? Do people fold weak As in 2/4? Not on friday night they don't.

I don't like the flop play at all... not in this position... in LP with a bunch of limpers..... you're forced to hit a flush draw and a flush draw only... without position... it is much harder to get paid off with your flushes in EP... we'll a a-5 str is probably good too.. but your A has almost no value in a 2/4 game especially on the weekend where you're gonna get 300 callers... once you flop the flush draw I like the lead on the flop... you want a lot of callers and a pot built for the times you hit... the raise on the turn is questionable... but you did lead the flop....

in some poker literature there are reasons to raise... thin the field, build a pot, free card... and you're probably not thinning the field here... and there is no such thing as a free card in this pot...

[/ QUOTE ]
umm i think you need to look at the hand again and re reply.

[GHL]

maybe I missed something..

PF

it says hero is utg+1... so my bad... but it did say 1 fold before you... limping with A2 suited first in... in EP in my opinion is bad giving the reasons I stated... your hand has no A value... it has flush draw and str draw and two pair value with major two pair issues... and I still stand by it.... it is harder to get value in EP from flushes than in LP... and they are not concealed as well as a str.

Flop.

I like the call... I said bet before... I don't like to raise with 300 people left to act after me... so I like the cold call.. if I was in LP... I would be able to get a raise in here wouldn't I.

Turn.

The BB bet again... obviously his A is way better than yours and he isn't scared of the 32 people left to act after him... this is why I think the raise is bad..... you're limiting nothing except hands that don't belong in the hand and that would possibly call with silly worse draws way worse than yours... the drawing dead friday night types.... so I stand by this one too... why raise the turn? It has no value other than to cut your dead money out of the pot... you're hand is probably not holding up to the BBs without a 2 (maybe not even with a 2) or a heart....

Again.. see why I say that the BB isn't afraid of the players? He is representing a monster of some kind... at least 2 pair or better... maybe a set... he isn't afraid of *again* 300 players left to act behind him...... since you didn't include the ** BB is craziest LAG i ever saw ** read on the BB player.... I assume he is still representing something that crushes you on all strets... he hasn't let his foot off the gas since the Germans invaded Poland.... you were looking for a 9 outer.. and missed... so you folded... I think the river fold was good.

Maybe it is friday night.. but I don't think it is possible for A2 to hold up with 6 players seeing the river with an A high board with 22 BBs in the pot. Not possible. Ever. Maybe you can give credit to 1 or 2 other playres with a fl ush draw.. but there are only so many hearts in the deck... someone else has a 4... another player has a 5... the BB has two pair at worst.... that leaves 1 or 2 other players that have you beat too.... probably.

[Bill C]

Slim,

Looks good to me.
I believe the river fold was the right move, especially with 2 more behind you.

Actually when BB 3-bet the turn, you looked like a dead duck.

With a pot this size I'm sure you hated to hit the "fold" button though! But it was the right move.

bill

[silkyslim]

hey GHL much better. i think you were saying that i bet out the flop or something. Limping A2s UTG is fine at this type of table, very loose, very passive. THe table stats were 56 VPIP, 6% pfr. the flop i dont like raising as i wont get a free card but might knock out players that call with crap like you said. the turn i raised to try and win with TP. i didnt think the bettor had an A, so i was trying to protect, maybe get a better ace left to act to fold. i dont know if that move was so bad. Why did you think the bettor had an ace? he didnt raise preflop. lots of idiots just donkbet any pair, they dont think about what other people could have. river was a fold and its not even close. some guy who CC'e the turn showed A2o. lol.

[silkyslim]

[ QUOTE ]
Slim,

Looks good to me.
I believe the river fold was the right move, especially with 2 more behind you.

Actually when BB 3-bet the turn, you looked like a dead duck.

With a pot this size I'm sure you hated to hit the "fold" button though! But it was the right move.

bill

[/ QUOTE ]
was the board paired? i wasnt worried about the 3 bet as long as i rivered a /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[GHL]

I have a moto.... without reads.. "give credit.. not cash"... and I do try to follow it... without reads he had you beat... with reads... we'll maybe different. At my 5/10 table I think I have the LAAAGGGAGAAGGAGG iest player of all time... I don't believe he has me beat in your pot... but sometimes he does.

I didn't mean to be mean.... just what I thought about the hand.

[chief444]

GH slim. You absolutely have to raise the turn here IMO. The pot's sweeeeet. You have the nut flush draw, just turned top pair, and can make it two bets to the rest of the field. You'll never fold an ace...or hardly ever. But for those times your hand is good you'll do wonders for your equity. Plus...you have the nut flush draw for those times it's not. Good hand.

[ackid]

Why not raise the flop? You will most likely get callers any way and you have the nut flush, why not build the pot?

On the turn it looks like you maybe up vs. a set or reverse dominated w a/6,a/3 or a/7. So I would just call. Plus you have a good nut draw so why knock out players?

I like the river fold because your draw didnt hit and his 2nd donk bet means he wasnt f'n around.

[Jake (The Snake)]

I like the turn raise. Anybody with a 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 has 4 or 5 outs against Hero. Given preflop these holdings are not unlikely at all.

If there were some guarantee BB is ahead, than calling would probably be better, but he could certainly be betting a draw.

Lastly, even if you get called in multiple spots AND BB has a better ace your equity still probably holds its own.

[masse75]

Don't know if it's an indication how the table is playing, but this hand is 7 to the flop, unraised. I'd sure as hell limp UTG with A-Crap suited.

Putting the BB on an A is premature after the flop. He checks preflop and THEN leads out the action on the flop--I can put him on a variety of hands--TPGK, 4-flush, or gutshot/flopped straight. If the flopped straight I'd think he'd slowplay.

After he 3-bets the turn I suspect a much better A than mind, possibly 2 pair. Still, a huge pot, and I call the 3-bet and hope for a heart. Capping might actually lose money, as MP1 and button will have to cold-call 2 bets TWICE in the same hand. I'd suspect they'd fold.

I originally thought the turn raise was terrible, but then I realized you need to protect against any one-pair or gutshot hand. You might even be ahead now. vnh.

Raise the flop. This pot is just big enough to try to eliminate other aces if possible. Besides, most will probably call anyway. Plus you have bad relative position if you hit your flush having to act immediately after the BB.