Action with Jacks an' I'm confused at the $109s

[kyro]

Hi, remember me?

No reads. I'm assuming a typical $109 but the little I've seen at this level makes me think my cat could beat it for a decent ROI with little training.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t975)
Button (t1015)
SB (t785)
BB (t945)
UTG (t820)
UTG+1 (t1035)
UTG+2 (t625)
MP1 (t1345)
Hero (t975)
MP3 (t1480)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t15, UTG+2 calls t15, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t30</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t120</font>, MP3 calls t120, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls t110, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls t90.

Flop: (t522.50) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t275</font>, MP1 calls t275, Hero ??

Push/fold? How often am I ahead here?

Edited for snazzier title!

[nuclear500]

He's betting into 3 people in a fairly big pot and that bet is called.

I'd say you're looking at a set or slow played AA or KK from SB or MP1. I can't see AT or an under pair to the Tens making this play because he can't call a raise.

SB has pot committed himself by making the bet, he has over 50% in. He will definately be going to the river.

I fold, unfortunately.

[downtown]

I'm worried about MP1's min-raise followed by flop cold call, and I fold. He's either got a set of tens or (more likely) AA-QQ more often than not. Although, guessing by your title and what I've seen, he could have actually had anything here...

Is QQ-AA likely here? Here at the $55's we don't slowplay those hands. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif The call by MP1 scares me. Possibly a set. Or he really sucks.

[tigerite]

No, AA-QQ really isn't very likely. AT is from at least one of them, but what is the other guy holding I really have no idea.

I folded 77 on a 5 high flop earlier to a bet and raise, but I would not fold JJ here barring some mega read, regardless. I'd push.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]

I folded 77 on a 5 high flop earlier to a bet and raise, but I would not fold JJ here barring some mega read, regardless. I'd push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think these two situations are vastly different. In most cases, your situation is a clear fold. I'm still undecided about mine.

However, talk seems to be dying. I folded, hating it. SB had 99 and caller(MP1?) had KTo. They got it all-in on the turn. And I was afraid of the $109s!

[Slim Pickens]

Two people cold-call your reraise behind and then one of them bets out on a ragged flop and gets called. There's no way your hand is good. Not a chance... none.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
Two people cold-call your reraise behind and then one of them bets out on a ragged flop and gets called. There's no way your hand is good. Not a chance... none.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sound like someone I know. Oh yeah. Me. 60 minutes ago. After I watched my chips head over to the fish with KT. I'm going to go cut my wrists.

[1C5]

[ QUOTE ]
Two people cold-call your reraise behind and then one of them bets out on a ragged flop and gets called. There's no way your hand is good. Not a chance... none.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahaha, wait, you play at Party Poker don't you? No chance?

Think the 1st guy has AA and 2nd guy trip 10s? hahaha

You may be behind often but zero chance you are ahead? Not even close.

[tigerite]

There are a huge number of fish at the $109s, we regulars there just don't like to say too much about it.

Obviously if I knew either of these players was in any way sane (i.e. I had seen them before, or knew them to be 2p2 or whatever), I'd fold with the quickness.

This kind of insanity at the 109s!!!!????

Good god.

[tipperdog]

I call. Never say never...but...

Never fold an overpair early in a SnG.

Edit: I mean PUSH! Must have been a misclick in my OP /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[adanthar]

I'd have pushed. The minraise means (meant) nothing and the bet is a classic probe. The call is a ten or some crap way more than a set.

I don't really *hate* your fold, but I hope you don't try it with queens.

[tigerite]

Yes there's no way the first guy to bet on this flop has anything much. A ten, and that's it. The middle guy is perhaps a minor worry/irritant, but without any reads on him I'm certainly not putting him on QQ+ or a set. If he was a known decent player, that's when I would seriously consider folding.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd have pushed. The minraise means (meant) nothing and the bet is a classic probe. The call is a ten or some crap way more than a set.

I don't really *hate* your fold, but I hope you don't try it with queens.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly enough, I put one of them on QQ, so if I hold QQ, I probably don't fold.

[Slim Pickens]

[ QUOTE ]
However, talk seems to be dying. I folded, hating it. SB had 99 and caller(MP1?) had KTo. They got it all-in on the turn. And I was afraid of the $109s!

[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet Jesus. That has got to be an anomaly. Part of the reason to fold that hand is saying "Well, they can't both be that stupid. Someone has to have something better than a weak overpair to pot committ themselves on the flop." In general, I think folding here is prudent.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, talk seems to be dying. I folded, hating it. SB had 99 and caller(MP1?) had KTo. They got it all-in on the turn. And I was afraid of the $109s!

[/ QUOTE ]

Sweet Jesus. That has got to be an anomaly. Part of the reason to fold that hand is saying "Well, they can't both be that stupid. Someone has to have something better than a weak overpair to pot committ themselves on the flop." In general, I think folding here is prudent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, we're getting results oriented here. Just because these two happened to be donks, doesn't mean the "average" 109 players would be making these plays. I agree 100% with the assertion above. Many timse I think, BOTH of these two can't be complete idiots. Well, yes, apparently even at the 109s....