God article

[coltrane]

tell us how you really feel Cenk....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/if-youre-a-christian-mu_b_9349.html

Wow. I feel like that sometimes too. On the one hand, I don't mind people believing what they want -- I have seen it make people happier. But, on the other, those beliefs often lead into the people being controlled by those who know how to manipulate the believers. This is bad.

[J. Stew]

It's strange how someone can be mostly right and still entirely miss the point. Is there something that religion points to, yes. Do people mistake the finger pointing at the moon for the moon itself, yes. Is the way to break their delusion to berate them, no. Does this guy get it, not quite, which in this case means entirely. Just another ranting post from someone who thinks he knows what's up but through his writing demonstrates his ignorance about ignorance, bahh humbug.

-Stew

I will never defend religion. Religion will kill you quicker than anything else.

You said...

Jesus is said to have said on the cross, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Because Jesus was insane and the God he thought would rescue him did not exist. And he died on that cross like a fool. He fancied himself the son of God and he could barely convince twelve men to follow him at a time when the world was full of superstition.

You have a lot to say, not much other than personal opinion though. You make statements like "Because Jesus was insane", are you actually stating that as fact or just rambling. Even the theory that Jesus was mad has been tested by phsycologists, he showed no signs of real insanity but a sharp mind and intelligence.

"My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Jesus did not say this because he believed God would rescue him. He knew that he was going to die like that and said so to his disciples. The reason he said it was because for the first time he was seperated from God, and that withdrawl is what brought up the gut-wrenching cry of Jesus. God had to withdraw because, the price for sin is seperation from God. He did look like a fool, yes, which made me question why he fought so hard to go through with it...

Your last point about his disciples, he chose a bunch of incapables to show us something. Yes, his disciples continually let him down, disowning him and Judas betraying him. But, the thing that is fascinating is what happened after he died, this bunch of inadequates turned into world changers who did just that. The early church exploded in numbers despite harsh oppostion, the disciples told that it was because Jesus showed himself to them and others after he died. You don't have to belive that because it's written, it does reason thought though. In 2000 years the rapid spread of a message that is so hard to accept calls me to look into it and question it at least.

you were right, his disciples were doubtful and had little faith. Still, people flocked to Jesus while he was alive there was something different about him. People are still coming to Jesus now 2000 years later. This Jesus has a huge following, why do you think it is?

It's so common to hear that weak people need a crutch, Jesus is that crutch.. If this crutch in question can change a person in the worst state of humanity into a strong world changer then I would glady express my need for such a crutch.
I'm a poet, and it previously hadn't occured to me...

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
quoted by Herbet Spencer.

The way to look at any interesting theory is to weigh the evidence personally, not on another mans opinions but to investigate the facts and come to a personal conclusion.

[imported_luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
We live in a world full of insane people. Sanity is an island battered in an ocean of frothing delusion. The people who believe in science are the minority. The people who believe in bloody fairytales are the overwhelming majority.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he overstated his case in this one eensy teensy spot. They aren't insane, merely susceptible to act like it when religion drives some cause. hmmm..ok, maybe in some way fundamentalists are insane, since insane means super out of touch with reality.

[imported_luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
Even the theory that Jesus was mad has been tested by phsycologists, he showed no signs of real insanity but a sharp mind and intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

What has that got to do with sanity? What about Unibomber and Bobby Fischer and ...
Would somebody wandering about making the claims JC did not be ruled insane today? ?? ? Hard to see how thinking your are the son of god is more sane than thinking you are napolean.

[ QUOTE ]
I will never defend religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you just did.

If you were the Son of God it would be perfectly sane to say so.

"It's true that people with phsycological dificulties will often claim to be somebody that their not.", "However, psychologists don't just look at what a person says. They'll go much deeper than that. They'll look at a persons emotions, because disturbed individuals frequently show innapropriate depression, or they might be vehemently angry, or perhaps they're plagued with anxiety. But look at Jesus, he never displayed inappropriate emotions."
There is much more.

They may have thinking disorders, misperceptions, display unsuitable behaviour. "Jesus didn't show any signs of being out of contact with reality. He spoke clearly, powerfully and eloquently. He was brilliant and had absolutely amazing insights into human nature."

He had many relaionships with people from very different walks of life, and maintained a balance despite his often demanding lifestyle.

The psychologists diagnosis --
"All in all, I just don't see signs that Jesus was suffering from any know mental illness," he concluded, adding with a smile, "he was much healthier than anyone else I know - including me!"
Quoted by Gary R. Colins, PH.D

[Aytumious]

It's good to know a psychologist gave Jesus a clean bill of health 2000 years after his death.

[imported_luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
But look at Jesus, he never displayed inappropriate emotions."

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, most of the certifiably sane people I know would be just a tad upset over people driving nails in their hands.

[ QUOTE ]
It's good to know a psychologist gave Jesus a clean bill of health 2000 years after his death.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not very well known but a medic in Roman times did a psychological analysis - or the ancient Roman equivalent - of Jesus while in custody and found him to be "in sound mind and spirit" despite his outlandish claims. This was documented about 20 years later by the famous Roman historian Tactius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus) , presumably using actual records (Tactius is know to be very reliable as a historian). I'm assuming the modern analysis is based on those documents.

They also may have analysed independent (non biblical) historical accounts of Jesus's life (of which there are many - the most well known being the book "Of Loaves and Fishes - The Savior of Mankind" written by Ameer Tukad in 43 AD, well preserved because of the use of papyrus fibre. The book is currently on display at the the Phüktârd museum in Prague, Germany)

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
The book is currently on display at the the Phüktârd museum in Prague, Germany.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are those dang Nazis at it again?

[Martin]

[ QUOTE ]

Are those dang Nazis at it again?

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I'm sure the people of Prague are really happy to be German again /images/graemlins/smile.gif Musta been a stealth invasion.

[ QUOTE ]
Prague, Austria

[/ QUOTE ]

Happy now? I checked my paragraph for inaccuracies but I guess one slipped through the net. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Prague, Austria

[/ QUOTE ]

Happy now? I checked my paragraph for inaccuracies but I guess one slipped through the net. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Close enough. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

RJT

"And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry: And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever."

Doesn't sound like a very rational guy to me.

Phil, I assume your entire post is a joke?

[Martin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Prague, Austria

[/ QUOTE ]
Hey I live in Austria, better tell em in Prague that they are Austrian again. Been a rough day for the people of Prague, first the Germans now us. Who's next? The Russians maybe? If we go further with this thread maybe the people of the Czech Republic will rise up again and get rid of all the multiple invaders!!! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Lestat]

Well, you're right that his essay isn't likely to cure any religious person from fictitious beliefs. But the guy does nail it. Perhaps the rational thinking people of this world have long been too polite and accepting of those with ridiculous belief systems. I don't mean to sound like a hard liner, but..

If it gives you comfort to believe that an invisible being is lurking amongst the TRILLIONS of stars and focusing in on one tiny planet in one small galaxy out of billions, so that you can personally go to some special invisible place when you die, that's fine. Whatever gets you through the night. We should all be tolerant of such beliefs. They have a right to that belief. They can all get together and conregrate in their churches, temples, and synogues, etc. But leave this [censored] the [censored] out of politics and important world matters!!

[bearly]

really, are you folks in some frat house, caf, or bs session at a coffee house? does anyone (i guess you readers must) honestly think these sorts of ramblings are fit for a forum on science and philosophy. i have seen as good on bathroom doors. when writers talk about the concept of "dumbing down" this has to be what they are on about...................b

[ QUOTE ]
really, are you folks in some frat house, caf, or bs session at a coffee house? does anyone (i guess you readers must) honestly think these sorts of ramblings are fit for a forum on science and philosophy. i have seen as good on bathroom doors. when writers talk about the concept of "dumbing down" this has to be what they are on about...................b

[/ QUOTE ]

A sphicter says what?

[bearly]

i suppose you know. after all every one else seems to know everything w/out appearing to have given it much thought............................b

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
really, are you folks in some frat house, caf, or bs session at a coffee house? does anyone (i guess you readers must) honestly think these sorts of ramblings are fit for a forum on science and philosophy. i have seen as good on bathroom doors. when writers talk about the concept of "dumbing down" this has to be what they are on about...................b

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain what your motivation is for this post.

[Peter666]

The man is stupid. He goes around deriding half the world's beliefs and criticizing them for killing people. And yet where does he derive the morality that killing others is wrong?

His religion is one of preserving his own life in so far as it benefits his own selfish desires. How does he explain death and the fact that his entire existence is futile because death is imminent? He lives in a world that is absolutely contrary to his personal belief system and desires. He is a walking contradiction, and will have a miserable end that goes completely against his nature, even if there was no Hell, because death to him is Hell.

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
The man is stupid. He goes around deriding half the world's beliefs and criticizing them for killing people. And yet where does he derive the morality that killing others is wrong?

His religion is one of preserving his own life in so far as it benefits his own selfish desires. How does he explain death and the fact that his entire existence is futile because death is imminent? He lives in a world that is absolutely contrary to his personal belief system and desires. He is a walking contradiction, and will have a miserable end that goes completely against his nature, even if there was no Hell, because death to him is Hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

Phil, you are the stupid one - Cenk nailed it. Too bad you can't comprehend it. I love how people like you impose your own personal belief system on others. How can you presume that he is living contrary to his own beliefs? Or that he will be miserable. Use the search function and reference the dozens of other posts that explain why none of your assumptions on how atheists live or feel are correct.

[Jeff V]

Every time I think you may be a thinking person.

"Perhaps the rational thinking people of this world have long been too polite and accepting of those with ridiculous belief systems."

And this one.

"If it gives you comfort to believe that an invisible being is lurking amongst the TRILLIONS of stars and focusing in on one tiny planet in one small galaxy out of billions, so that you can personally go to some special invisible place when you die, that's fine"

Lestat-you can do better.

[bearly]

i'm sure you are familiar w/ feelings of frustration. as well, i imagine you have had a friend who is having a hard time understanding something, and you want to help, but your friend doesn't want your help. that can be disappointing as well as frustrating.............b