Conservative group wants to boycott Ford

[Paluka]

Here is the story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051216/ap_on_bi_ge/ford_boycott

Basicaly they want to boycott Ford because Ford advertises in gay publications. I think this is way out there crazy.

[Riverman]

Wow the religious right is so out of control. I love it when these same people get mad at muslims for being "intolerant" and "dogmatic." Idiots.

[CD56]

I am rarely surpised by the levels to which these groups sink to object to those different than them.

Seems to me that these people are just using this Ford situation as a vehicle (no pun intended) to get their anti-gay stance across as many media outlets as possible.

[Beer and Pizza]

It seems Ford had an agreement not to pick sides in the culture war, and they broke it. No one cares if you discrimate against religious people, but they expect those same religious people to not stand for what they think is right.

A boycott is a civillian action, not government imposed action. It is a civil right to protest. Do you want to deny them the right to protest?

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems Ford had an agreement not to pick sides in the culture war, and they broke it. No one cares if you discrimate against religious people, but they expect those same religious people to not stand for what they think is right.

A boycott is a civillian action, not government imposed action. It is a civil right to protest. Do you want to deny them the right to protest?

[/ QUOTE ]

How is advertising in a gay magazine picking sides in the culture war? I'd call it "trying to sell cars".
I agree they have a right to protest, but a boycott of Ford because they advertise in a gay magazine is more of a "KKK parade" type of protest than most.

[Riverman]

Of course they can do whatever they want. I just think they are hypocritical, small-minded jerkoffs.

[Beer and Pizza]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course they can do whatever they want. I just think they are hypocritical, small-minded jerkoffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

A boycott is strictly voluntary. Let anyone boycott what they want. What we need to watch out for are the federal judges who use the force of the government to suppress groups. Now that is scary, and the religious groups are often the victims of such government oppression in this country.

[theweatherman]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course they can do whatever they want. I just think they are hypocritical, small-minded jerkoffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats your absolute right to feel that way. I think the best way to put them in theirplace would be to launch a counter protest with 20X hte people, or just to watch the last 50 anti gay bigots fail miserably at anything close to a successful boycott.

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course they can do whatever they want. I just think they are hypocritical, small-minded jerkoffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

A boycott is strictly voluntary. Let anyone boycott what they want. What we need to watch out for are the federal judges who use the force of the government to suppress groups. Now that is scary, and the religious groups are often the victims of such government oppression in this country.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree with what you are saying here. I'm just frustrated with the lack of backlash. If I formed a group that wanted to boycott Ford because they sell cars to african-americans, I'm pretty sure the media would crucify me.

[Riverman]

I strongly disagree with the assertion that religious groups are the target of judicial oppression in the US. Please name for me any religious group whose opinions have been censored or abridged when the expression of such an opinion has not been in direct violation of established laws or constitutional guarantees. I cannot think of such an instance.

One area in which I think religious conservatives have a valid point is same-sex marriage in instances where its permissability is mandated my the courts. Still, I would encourage people who oppose gay marriage to engage in the political process (which they do). My point is that I think it is not only acceptable but healthy for society overall for groups to express themselves politically but I still think the religious right is a bunch of yahoos.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
A boycott is strictly voluntary. Let anyone boycott what they want. What we need to watch out for are the federal judges who use the force of the government to suppress groups. Now that is scary, and the religious groups are often the victims of such government oppression in this country.

[/ QUOTE ]

Example?

I'm willing to listen. How exactly are Christians oppressed in America? I'm just generally assuming that you, of course, mean Christians when you say "religious groups".

[MtSmalls]

The WHOLE story here is one that might be far more important for the long term in this country. It has been well covered HERE (http://americablog.blogspot.com/) Ford has been advertising its Jaguar and Land Rover models in predominately gay publications for several years.

A few months ago, the AFA had meetings with Ford executives in Washington DC. Not coincidentally, both of the AFA reps in those meetings were former GWB Adminstration lackeys. The outcome of those meetings was that Ford was going to drop their advertising completely in any gay publications under threat of a boycott organized and backed by the AFA.

After roughly a week of heavy pressure, not just from the gay rights groups, but the CIVIL rights groups, Ford is not only going to continue advertising in the gay publications, but they will continue to buy adspace for ALL of the firm's makes, not just Jaguar and LR, and continue to support the gay community in sponsored events (See Kraft).

There are four or five stories of this similar ilk, From Microsoft to Kraft to Ford over the last year, where the Civil and Gay rights groups carry more weight with these firms and have rejected the bigotry and hate of these so-called 'values' groups.

Bigotry is NOT a family value
Hate is NOT a family value

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
A boycott is strictly voluntary. Let anyone boycott what they want.

[/ QUOTE ] You are confused.

It is not argued that boycotts by persons or private organisations should not be allowed. The boycott itself is not being condemned here as political action. Those folks certainly have every right to boycott.

What is argued is that this specific anti-Ford boycott is indicative of its proponents' intolerant and closed mind.

[whiskeytown]

Democracy needs freedom - a theocracy is generally the exact opposite -

basically, the religious right has set themselves up in such a way where any attempt to express oneself outside of their "morally right" definitions is oppression of their goal to establish a theocracy in America. Hence, wanting to allow companies to sell products to gay people is oppressing them and their goals.

I hope to continue oppressing them with my dying breath. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[lehighguy]

A really simple example would be that my mom wasn't allowed to put a small christmas decoration on her desk because it was religous (not even sure if it was religous, was probably a little tree or santa since my mom doesn't go to church). However, any non-christian holiday decorations are allowed because they are afraid of being sued.

Moreover, any idea that is categorized as "religous" suddenly gets treated differently then any other idea. You can teach philosophy and ethics in school if you want, as long as none of the ideas are related to a popular religion. If they are, suddenly those ideas are treated second class.

I haven't been to church in over a decade, and I don't care much for religion. But it's obvious as hell to me that mainstream religion gets the shaft from government.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
A really simple example would be that my mom wasn't allowed to put a small christmas decoration on her desk because it was religous (not even sure if it was religous, was probably a little tree or santa since my mom doesn't go to church). However, any non-christian holiday decorations are allowed because they are afraid of being sued.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does your mom work for the state? If she doesn't, you should realize how empty this complaint is.

Not only that, the Christmas tree is a secular symbol that has no religious meaning.

[ QUOTE ]
Moreover, any idea that is categorized as "religous" suddenly gets treated differently then any other idea. You can teach philosophy and ethics in school if you want, as long as none of the ideas are related to a popular religion. If they are, suddenly those ideas are treated second class.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Where?

There were no philosophy or ethics classes offered at my public high school. At the state university I attended, I took a few philosophy classes where discussions centered around non-secular ethics occurred quite frequently.

This just sounds like more of the right-wing fiction narrative in action to me.

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't been to church in over a decade, and I don't care much for religion. But it's obvious as hell to me that mainstream religion gets the shaft from government.

[/ QUOTE ]

So your evidence that it's 'obvious as hell that mainstream religion gets the shaft from the government' is:

1) an anecdotal story that doesn't prove what you say it does, since if your mom doesn't work for the state, your mom's problem is with her company, not the state.
2) the notion that 'ideas get treated differently' -- which is merely just some subjective assessment that you couldn't prove anyway, and STILL doesn't give weight to the fact that the state oppresses religious groups.

Are these two things, taken together, supposed to provide compelling evidence of the obvious, widespread oppression of religious groups by the state ?

I think there needs to be some serious introspection from those claiming Christians are 'oppressed' in this country.

It seems like, to make the claim work, 'oppression' needs to mean something like 'we don't get what we want all the time'.

[JackWhite]

[ QUOTE ]
What is argued is that this specific anti-Ford boycott is indicative of its proponents' intolerant and closed mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be so, but I see no difference between them and those, inlcuding posters here, who hate the religious right and vilify them at every opportunity. If you want them to be tolerant and accept those who they disagree with, don't you have to do the same?

[InchoateHand]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is argued is that this specific anti-Ford boycott is indicative of its proponents' intolerant and closed mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be so, but I see no difference between them and those, inlcuding posters here, who hate the religious right and vilify them at every opportunity. If you want them to be tolerant and accept those who they disagree with, don't you have to do the same?

[/ QUOTE ]

Meet MR. Fallacy, he is your friend.



MAN YOU ARE BIGOTED AGAINST BIGOTS YOU SUXORS!!!!LOL I AM A SMART CONVSERVATIVE HAHA
TAKE THAT LIBERAL SCUM PRESSING LOGIC WINS AGAIN
YOU CAN"T DISAGREE WITH STUPID IDEAS OR ELSE YOU ARE PREJUMICEDDD AGAINST STUPID IDEAS!!!!!

LOCIG YEAH!


Fair paraphrase JackWhite?

[JackWhite]

[ QUOTE ]
Meet MR. Fallacy, he is your friend.



MAN YOU ARE BIGOTED AGAINST BIGOTS YOU SUXORS!!!!LOL I AM A SMART CONVSERVATIVE HAHA
TAKE THAT LIBERAL SCUM PRESSING LOGIC WINS AGAIN
YOU CAN"T DISAGREE WITH STUPID IDEAS OR ELSE YOU ARE PREJUMICEDDD AGAINST STUPID IDEAS!!!!!

LOCIG YEAH!


Fair paraphrase JackWhite?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it is not. My point is simple: if you are going to preach tolerance, you must practice it. Disagree?

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
Now that is scary, and the religious groups are often the victims of such government oppression in this country.


[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, didn't know they were that oppressed. Poor little souls; hopefully God make up for them in Paradise.

[InchoateHand]

Don't think people are "preaching" tolerance. I think they are opposing bigots who will go beyond "disagreeing" with them to the point of "silencing" them.

And I don't preach tolerance. Every dead fundamentalist Christian is one step closer to a decent America.

[JackWhite]

[ QUOTE ]
And I don't preach tolerance. Every dead fundamentalist Christian is one step closer to a decent America.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok

[InchoateHand]

Glad we agree on something.

[ACPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Let anyone boycott what they want. What we need to watch out for are the federal judges who use the force of the government to suppress groups

[/ QUOTE ]

The ACLU will be there to defend their right to boycott. Have you contributed towards their efforts recently. If not then try how to reduce your level of fear (http://www.aclu.org)

[Peter666]

I think gays should be encouraged to buy crappy Ford products.

[BadBoyBenny]

So you and all your friends are going to go out and buy Fords?