Bluffing with KQ

[Spicymoose]

Party 6-max 15/30.

I open raise the button with KQo, and a somewhat tricky TAG in the SB 3-bets. I cap.

Flop is A73r.

He checks, I bet, he checkraises, I 3-bet.

Good?

[Evan]

Ha, I thought the bluff was going to be the preflop cap. I think this is really bad. He's prety much always going to showdown here and youre probably drawing extremely thin since this isn't a likely board for him to not have a pair.

[Spicymoose]

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I think this is really bad. He's prety much always going to showdown here and youre probably drawing extremely thin since this isn't a likely board for him to not have a pair.

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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0&fpart=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=mhsh&Number=4205059&page= 0&fpart=1)

Please explain the difference.

[spydog]

Calling the flop CR and raising the turn seems the best way to fold this guy. It's more expensive but has more fold equity.

However, I really don't like this play as a standard play. I hate to spew chips when the guy's most likely holding is Ax and I'm drawing nearly dead. That being said, I will sometimes pull this play when I feel they will overrespect a flop 3-bet from me. But, this is so rare and the table conditions and flow of the previous 25 hands dictate this.

Sometimes it's best to fold, even when you know that Villian will think that he outplayed you with his 88 or something else.

[spydog]

The difference is that KK is ahead of all the pocket pairs that he is checkraising, but KQ is behind those.

[Spicymoose]

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The difference is that KK is ahead of all the pocket pairs that he is checkraising, but KQ is behind those.

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Yes, but everyone hated 3-betting the KK because PPs and non pairs would fold, and we would miss out on him bluffing into us later.

[Wynton]

In my view, this play can only be justified by some history between the two of you. In other words, I wouldn't do that based on cold numbers, but only if he seemed to be 3-betting light, or you had recently fallen into a pattern of folding quickly in similar situations.

[AviD]

I don't like getting involved with tricky tags in capped pots with KQo, especially when I whiff the flop. You're never pushing him off an Ace here, and will rarely be able to tell if he has the Ace or not. 3-betting the flop will likely get you CRed again on the turn whether he has it or not. I think your better line if you MUST continue is to smoothcall the flop CR and raise the turn. He still isn't going to let go of an Ace but he'll let go of some other hands that beat you, such as underpairs. Or he may play uber agg and pop you back.

Ultimately, I think this is an ugly spot to get involved with a tricky TAG, and I'm assuming he is more TAG preflop and more tricky postflop. If you think he is capable of folding to aggression, then I think the above turn line is your best chance in taking down the pot. 3-betting the flop, he is likely to go into check/call mode with any pocket pair.

[Spicymoose]

My only concern with this play is whether PPs actually call down after we 3-bet.

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Ultimately, I think this is an ugly spot to get involved with a tricky TAG.

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I agree. As for whether he will call down, its highly player dependent and up to your read. A lot of the worse TAGs who are not so aggressive will call down in this spot. I myself call down with a PP a good portion of the times here.

[AviD]

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My only concern with this play is whether PPs actually call down after we 3-bet.

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I think psychologically a tricky TAG with any pocket over 7 sees the A on board and says "the only hands I'm worried about are Ax. He capped PF, which means a big/decent A, AK-A9s. If he really had that why would he 3-bet me on this flop rather than waiting until the turn or river". At least that is how I'd see it, but it depends on what level of thinking is going on between you and tricky TAG. Does he think you'll 3-bet an Ace and know he'll call down or make a move with a weaker hand on the turn by CRing the turn.

If you had an Ace, you wouldn't want to push him off. He knows that, which is why I think he's more likely to call down with a pocket, esp > 77. He *may* fold 66/55/44 thinking you have an overpair to the 7s yourself. Beyond all that, if he isn't capable of folding, I think the flop 3-bet invites a turn CR from a tricky TAG whether he has the Ace or a pocket pair. But I don't think he is betting the river without an strong Ace and you can't bet the turn and fold to a CR, nor call a turn CR even if you hit a K or Q IMO. So looking ahead, the 3-bet line puts you in a tough spot on the turn...again. Of course, if he calls...I think you are dead and have to give up on the river and showdown your K high. If he calls the turn raise, he isn't folding the river for another bet. If he 3-bets, whether tricky or not...you have to fold as well.

That's what I think, but my game has been all over the place over the last 6 months...so take it for what it's worth! /images/graemlins/wink.gif