($16) Flopped big draw out of position

[11t]

So okay, I was wondering about the line I took with this hand.

Pokerstars Turbo, blinds are 15/30. Full table, no reads.

Hero is in SB (t1530) with 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

UTG thru MP folds, MP2 limps, CO limps, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

The flop is 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/club.gif6 /images/graemlins/club.gif Pot is (120)

Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets 120, CO folds, Hero folds.

So here is my thinking, couple people limp PF, I wanna see if I can hit the flop and stack one of them. I complete, and flop a decent draw.

So at this point as being first to act and having no information I can either check or bet. Now the purpose of betting here is to generate folds and build the pot for when I hit my hand. I however, think betting at this pot is not a good idea since the A hit and it is very possible that either of the limpers hold something like A9-AJ. If they cannot fold those hands than I have lost fold equity and betting here would only builds a pot that I am most likely to lose. Also if one of them holds AJ than they could very likely re-raise me forcing me to either let my hand go or 3-bet all in and hope they fold or I hit my draw when they call.

So betting is out, now I could also check. Checking here allows me to get more information about my opponents hands and I can make another decision when it gets back to me. I do not think I can c/r here due to the size of the pot in comparison to my stack since. The pot size would force me to c/r a large % of my stack but not all of it (unless I wanted to massively overbet) and if I get called I would be forced to lead a turn (probably just a push) which may or may not hit me.

So if betting is out of the question and check raising is also not optimal than I am left with check-calling. This forces the drivers seat of my posession and into Villain's. I cannot call a pot sized bet on the flop due to the lack of implied odds for when I hit on the turn and the need for stack preservation in SNG's. So I check/folded to the pot sized bet.

I dunno, is my thinking flawed here?

[jeffraider]

I don't think your thinking is flawed, but I do disagree about the lack of implied odds if you hit on the turn. I think you can count on at least getting a fair chunk out of the the bettor, if not stacking him, at least a good enough portion of the time to call off less than 10% of your stack. I'd check-call this bet I believe, but I'm really not used to have 1500 chips lol.

[tigerite]

I would call here, c/r is out of the question because unless it can be all-in (which would be silly here despite the huge draw) then the turn, as you correctly say, is going to be just crap to play. But folding isn't terrible too - it really depends how you're feeling.

You could bet out on the flop and 3-bet if raised, but I don't like that line much with an ace on the flop. If it was the K /images/graemlins/club.gif instead, that is what I'd do.

[durron597]

There are two ways to play this hand, IMO:

If you think they are capable of folding A9/AT some % of the time: I would definitely lead out so that I can push when an ace raises back to me. I want them to think I flopped two pair out of the blinds and will fold.

If you think they are not capable of folding A9/AT some % of the time: I would check like you did, and call any bet up to about 1.25x the size of the pot. Then I would continue on the turn only if I hit trips, 2 pair, or my flush, or if I whiff all three then I would check and call a bet up to about 2/3 pot. Check fold the river if you miss there too.

[11t]

Yah, if I thought they were capable of folding a weak ace I think betting here is by far the best option. However, my problem with calling a pot sized bet ont he flop is that if I hit my draw on the turn I am forced to bet out due to how corruptible my hand is so I feel that diminishes my implied odds.

Examples: If he has a9, pots the flop, I call, turn is 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif and I lead out 2/3 the pot for 240 what % of the time do you think he will call?

I suppose I do have enough chips that I could see a river though I just don't like drawing heads up and out of position.

Thanks for the input.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Yah, if I thought they were capable of folding a weak ace I think betting here is by far the best option. However, my problem with calling a pot sized bet ont he flop is that if I hit my draw on the turn I am forced to bet out due to how corruptible my hand is so I feel that diminishes my implied odds.

Examples: If he has a9, pots the flop, I call, turn is 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif and I lead out 2/3 the pot for 240 what % of the time do you think he will call?

I suppose I do have enough chips that I could see a river though I just don't like drawing heads up and out of position.

Thanks for the input.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the idea is that if they are not good enough to get away from an ace on the flop they won't be able to get away from it on the turn either.