QQ hand 5-handed

[nolanfan34]

Couple of questions here, but first some background. Hero is new to short handed play. Villian in this hand is viewed as aggressive, but I don't know if aggressive = LAG fishy in this scenario. Hero certainly views villian as pushing weaker hands.

The hand: Poker Stars $1/$2 blinds. One limper to hero with Q /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero raises to $6. Villain raises to $16 on the button. Blinds fold, limper folds. Hero raises to $32. Villian calls the additional $16.

(first question here. What do we think about the hero's 3rd raise OOP? Good against an aggressive opponent?)

Flop: T /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif ($66 in pot approx)

Hero bets $22. Villian calls $22.

(thoughts on the flop bet?)

Turn: Q /images/graemlins/club.gif (Pot: $104 approx)

Hero checks, villian bets $22, Hero raises to $64, villain raises to $142 and has hero covered all-in....

Thoughts on the turn play?

[beavens]

dont minraise pf.. if youre gonna 3bet, make it real - 40-45.

i'd prefer a 2/3 flop bet.

river we're gonna be pushing because the Qc brought on 2 scary draws.

what is teh effective stack size here?

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
dont minraise pf.. if youre gonna 3bet, make it real - 40-45.

i'd prefer a 2/3 flop bet.

river we're gonna be pushing because the Qc brought on 2 scary draws.

what is teh effective stack size here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero started the hand with about $180. Villian has him covered, but not by much.

[Isura]

Badly played on all streets. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif It's all good, we are here to learn. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Preflop: Raise to about $10 preflop, and more if you expect callers. You want to build big pots in position with your strong hands. Once button raises, either call or raise to about $50. Make him put in a large chunk of his stack in preflop if he wants to outdraw you. If he's uber tight, I might call to conceal my hand, but given your read, repop him to $50.

Flop: Make a bigger bet, about 2/3 the pot. The board is very coordinated, and you don't want AK hearts or KQ to see a cheap turn. Somehow get your stack in the middle on the turn. Bet/3-bet or check/raise allin. Hope he has TT-JJ and not AK.

Edit: KK and AA may fold to a check/raise, so I like leading the turn better.

[tripp0807]

[ QUOTE ]
Couple of questions here, but first some background. Hero is new to short handed play. Villian in this hand is viewed as aggressive, but I don't know if aggressive = LAG fishy in this scenario. Hero certainly views villian as pushing weaker hands.

The hand: Poker Stars $1/$2 blinds. One limper to hero with Q /images/graemlins/heart.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero raises to $6. Villain raises to $16 on the button. Blinds fold, limper folds. Hero raises to $32. Villian calls the additional $16.

(first question here. What do we think about the hero's 3rd raise OOP? Good against an aggressive opponent?)

Flop: T /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif ($66 in pot approx)

Hero bets $22. Villian calls $22.

(thoughts on the flop bet?)

Turn: Q /images/graemlins/club.gif (Pot: $104 approx)

Hero checks, villian bets $22, Hero raises to $64, villain raises to $142 and has hero covered all-in....

Thoughts on the turn play?

[/ QUOTE ]

I flat call the preflop reraise. $45 on the flop, shove it in on the turn.

As played, I think that the turn raise is incredibly weak, giving villian odds to a flush draw, though I think he's got AK or a set of his own (hopefully!) anyway. Even if he's got AK, you've got a big redraw on the river. I check-raise all in on this turn.

[GrunchCan]

I don't like the PF 3-bet much, I'd rather just call then have the option of donking the flop if it looks especially bad or especially good. Given that Hero did 3-bet, it needs to be bigger. Hero doesn't have AA.

Flop bet is too small, unless it was intended to induce a bluff raise from AK. If it wasn't intended to induce, I'll bet 50-66. The flop is coordinated enough for me to want incorrect calls.

Turn is a bit too fancy for my liking, but it did seem to work in this case. If Hero knew it would work here, then OK. But if this is a kind of standard line against Joe-LAG, then I'd much prefer to lead for 1/2-2/3 pot, and hope the LAG raises or at least calls.

[wdeadwyler]

Preflop: Raise more, dont baby raise reraise, thats just bad.

Flop: Lead this flop for more.

Turn: villain's AK just got there. I would have led bigger on the flop and gotten the rest in, but as played, dont c/r, either lead of c/c.

[Go_Blue88]

I think that some of the criticism of this hand is a lil ridiculous, and seemingly "assumed" results-oriented.

You should prolly raise to 8ish p/f but really you should just raise your standard amount every time there's a limper. So if that amount is 6, then fine.

If Villian is aggressive, then the 3 bet preflop is a good idea, but make it bigger if you wanna take away his implied odds.

The Flop: Betting 1/3 of the flop isn't a great idea...in any form of poker (you said you're knew to short-handed, but you shouldn't do this anyways). So, just bet more next time.

The Turn: Your play is good. I like it. You're ahead of pretty much everything in Villian's range--AA,KK,JJ,TJ,88, flush draw.

Your play is pretty good in his hand, just need to pick better betting amounts, which is really easy to fix.

[beavens]

i disagree with liking the c-r on the turn.

too many cards out there to risk giving a free one.

I don't see any reason to raise the turn. He's representing a straight, and everything about his betting indicates that he has it. If he were bluffing, why did just call the flop? At that point, the pot was big enough to take down.

As it stands, you put yourself in a position to make a zero sum bet, as you're getting approx. 4 to 1 pot odds to draw the 10 out, 4 to 1 full house, quad draw.

[wyrd]

I would raise 4-5x BB preflop with a limper. Given it's 5 handed, your QQ moves up in value, so why not reraise? It's less likely that someone has AA or KK. Villain is also known as aggressive, so it's even more less likely that he has AA or KK.

I bet the flop hard given it's coordinated. By hard I mean pot sized flop bet.

The turn I'd call, he's giving you odds to make a boat, and he's probably got the goods at this point. If you reraise you're only going to get played with by a better hand.

[nolanfan34]

Thanks for all of the comments.

I was not the hero in this hand, but a friend of mine was and I was watching the hand at the time. He's a regular at the .50/1 tables full ring, but is trying to start taking some shots at 1/2 and playing shorthand a bit as well.

I was interested to hear what people think about the PF play. I think for sure $6 isn't a good enough amount. I would raise to $8 there. I also agree completely about the reraise PF. After an aggressive player raises, you really need to pop him back there if you're going to make that play. I think the min-raise is pretty weak.

I also think that out of position for the rest of the hand, I'm not sure how excited I am about having this player call and having to play a big pot in the first place. I probably would have just called his raise in the first place, not reraised.

The other thing I thought was interesting was hero's perception of "aggressive". He has a good understanding of hand values changing playing short handed, but I don't think he's realizing that aggressiveness can be a good thing short handed.

He did agree after the hand that his flop bet was no good. He of course needs to make a bet closer to pot sized, to either charge a drawing hand, or charge overcards, etc.

I think the turn is interesting. Hero in this hand didn't seem to give as much credence to a straight as some of you have in this thread. In the end he's probably getting his stack in the middle there regardless.

[wyrd]

[ QUOTE ]

He's a regular at the .50/1 tables full ring, but is trying to start taking some shots at 1/2 and playing shorthand a bit as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the betting was a little weak. If your friend doesn't have a bankroll to support moving up, he should stay at lower limits. There's no room for weakness in NL unless you want to lose tons of money. You need to be okay with losing your stack a few times.