the commitment line.....your take?

[bernie]

recently at the cardroom where i prowl theyve added a commitment line. it seems to have brought many more problems than it has solved.

on top of that, they change the rules/meaning of it at times...

both sides of how it helps/hinders new players have been presented. but i just see it slowing everything down ridiculously.

btw...as many hours ive spent in there, there didnt seem to be any problem with the old way of doing it. seems like a case of, 'it isnt broke, but what the hell, this is kinda cool, let's 'F' with it...'

any thoughts? pro or con...

b

[Ed Miller]

Obviously I wish they had left well-enough alone. I think most of the players agree with me.

[pufferfish]

What is a "commitment line"?

pf

[Stu Pidasso]

They paint a line on the table, if you move your chips past it, you have committed them to the pot.

Stu

[Sooga]

I guess most poker players just can't handle commitment....

[Mike]

Grab twenty chips, move them out, take your hand off, pick up all but the minimum bet and pull them back in, do it again next round...took away ten minutes from each hour while they played games. It gets old as you know.

I don't think I would like it. It was kicked around where I play but dropped for whatever reason. Talking about it and the house threatening to impliment it stopped most of the nonsense that was going on, so I am thankful for that.

Now if The House could just make them fold 72o, J3o, etc without a 10 second pause for show.

[pufferfish]

[slamdunkpro]

I'd rather watch them play with their chips then showboat for 5 min with their pocket cards before turning up their pair of 4's or what ever rag hand they know they are beat with when called

[slavic]

Bernie-
I'm not big on the line.

Friday night I watched a lady pick up 2 bets in her hand and move them on a 3 flush board with 2 players to act. The first guy mucked, the second bet into her, she moved her hands back said her Kings must not be good and mucked. The player called her on the pass line, the floor was called and she complained to no end to the floor. Another player put her 2 bets into the pot and then got up and left with his 3 1/2 racks. Several others left soon after cancelling what had been a good game.

[andyfox]

They put it in a while back (two years?) at Commerce, it didn't slow things down. But it seems to me it rarely comes in to play.

I like it better than the "forward motion" rule because there will be less arguments about whether a guy broke his stack or made a forward motion. It's clearer when the chips pass the line.

[Ed Miller]

The big problem with the line at Muckleshoot has been that they have decided that the number of chips that you have in your hand at the time you cross the line is/should be significant. At first, if you had more chips than what was needed to call the bet, you were forced to raise. Since that annoyed people, they changed it... this time if you have any number of chips that isn't exactly the amount needed to raise (that is, exactly eight chips preflop in a 4-8 game), and you haven't announced a raise by the time your hand crosses the line, then you are forced to only call. Thus, the standard move of grabbing a stack of chips and then breaking off two stacks of four chips to raise in a 4-8 game is now considered a call because you have brought more chips than necessary to raise across the line. Obviously, this rule is retarded.

On top of this, they forced the dealers to call this every time they saw it. So for a day or so, every other hand some dealer had to explain to some poor hapless player that the way they have been raising for years and years now constitutes a call. They have since changed the rule so that dealers may not call an infraction... it has to be player-called (though the stupid rule is still in place).

Also, the line is too close to the players and doesn't give people enough room to stack chips (one "triangle" of ten stacks of chips leaves only about two inches between the tip of the triangle and the line). This means that I have to stick my hand on one side of my triangle or the other... hiding it from half the table... as if I leave my cards in front of my triangle, then they are sitting across the line and if I protect my hand with a chip, I have committed myself to calling (and only calling) when it is my action (even if the chip I use to protect my hand is a different denomination than that used for the game, and yes, I did verify this with the floor).

So basically, the line at Muckleshoot has been a miserable experience. I hardly even noticed it at Commerce. Oh well...

[bernie]

until they change the rule yet again...

now, if you have chips from a previous pot over the line, it's fine. i missed the day where the rule involved the # of chips in your hand, though i heard about it. i believe now you dont have to announce your raise verbally.

i mean, how hard is it to see someone break their stack for a bet? you cut your chips over the line, youre at least committed to that amount but can still cut off another for the raise. hmmm seems that was the rule without the stupid line. but who knows what the rule will be today or tomorrow.

but hey, it'll look cool with the new felt..(sarcastic)

i told a dealer ill just take a green marker and color in the line. many dealers seem to dislike the line too. the mucks really planned great for this one...

b

[slavic]

I'm not sure they have changed a thing on the rule, other than it's now player called. I've never seen it enforced the same way twice but I thought that was just different floor personel and dealers.

[JTG51]

Thus, the standard move of grabbing a stack of chips and then breaking off two stacks of four chips to raise in a 4-8 game is now considered a call because you have brought more chips than necessary to raise across the line.

Wow, that might be the worst rule in the history of poker.

...as if I leave my cards in front of my triangle, then they are sitting across the line and if I protect my hand with a chip, I have committed myself to calling...

Nope, that one is.

This whole thing sounds like a disaster. Foxwoods doesn't have a forward motion rule or a 'commitment line' (although most tables do have a line), and I've hardly ever seen a problem.