$33 - Can I get away from this overpair.

[Insty]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed)

CO (t1030)
Hero (t765)
SB (t625)
BB (t1980)
UTG (t2690)
MP1 (t325)
MP2 (t585)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls t50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (t175) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t150</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t425</font>, Hero?


Tens and Jacks as overpairs seem to be causing me alot of trouble lately.

UTG has been really quite loose and has been showing down rubbish like Q7o.
Unfortunately I've not been paying enough attention to notice if he's been checkraising a lot.

Can I call this because I going to see K8 here as often as I am going to see 65 or 87 or JJ?
Or should I fold?

[Marc H]

He's loose and you're short compared to him.
He just raised half of the rest of your stack ... he is either trying to entice a call / push, or he's trying to bully you off the pot.
Have you ever seen him limp-reraise? If so, beware.
He could have a set or a higher pair ... otoh he COULD have 99, 66, 55, or just 8-x.
I say push.

I hate these spots.

Most likely villain hands assuming he's not a complete donk: AA, KK, A8, K8, 99, 88, 77, 44, or crap and he's trying to take you off the hand with his stack.

If he is paying any kind of attention he has to have you on either an overpair or a set, or he thinks you are making a move with position. Hmmmmmm.

I think I fold like a wet noodle. You'll have t465 with the blinds about to go to 50/100. I think you have a better chance of stealing/doubling your way to the money then winning this hand.

[ QUOTE ]
I hate these spots.

Most likely villain hands assuming he's not a complete donk: AA, KK, A8, K8, 99, 88, 77, 44, or crap and he's trying to take you off the hand with his stack.

If he is paying any kind of attention he has to have you on either an overpair or a set, or he thinks you are making a move with position. Hmmmmmm.

I think I fold like a wet noodle. You'll have t465 with the blinds about to go to 50/100. I think you have a better chance of stealing/doubling your way to the money then winning this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

We are talking about a loose player in a $33. This is *not* the WSOP. Villain does not think so much at all. He could easily have toppair or even worse.

I might go all-in here or fold. It depends on my read on him and the mood I'm in. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[kevkev60614]

This is super read dependent. Even though you've given a pretty good read, I don't think I can really answer. You noted that you can't remember if he'd c/r'd in the past, but has he usually been the aggressor in the hand, or has he just been a lucky calling station? If he's been stupidly aggressive every hand, this is a push. Otherwise, I think I default to fold. This is one of the spots I go by feel.

Raising pf would've made this easier to play, I think.

[Insty]

[ QUOTE ]
Most likely villain hands assuming he's not a complete donk: AA, KK, ...

[/ QUOTE ]

You think open limping AA or KK is likely?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most likely villain hands assuming he's not a complete donk: AA, KK, ...

[/ QUOTE ]

You think open limping AA or KK is likely?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not likely but there are players who do this.

And now that I think about it, a preflop raise would probably have been better. You are way ahead of UTG's range and if you raise you can isolate him.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most likely villain hands assuming he's not a complete donk: AA, KK, ...

[/ QUOTE ]

You think open limping AA or KK is likely?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it depends on how we define "likely," but I see it all the time, and I will occasionally (rarely) do it with a big stack and an aggressive table if I think I am very likely to be raised pre-flop. Definitely not the most likely of all the hands, but worth at least considering.

I always struggle with what to do with TT in this type of situation pre-flop. Obviously in an MTT I'm raising. But here, in level 3 of an SNG, I am still thinking about getting to level 4 and 5 where I can start stealing and surviving to the bubble. So often I call, hoping to minimize my investment and just play some poker post-flop. Sounds like most of you think that is a poor approach?

[tigerite]

Very poor - I'm raising here every time barring some extremely strange read (which is definitely not the case here).

[Insty]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm raising here every time barring some extremely strange read

[/ QUOTE ]

How much? Pushing seems excessive, and a loose bigstack is quite likely to call any raise I make, and I am still lost on the flop...

Would you also raise 9's? 4's?

[tigerite]

I might raise 99. 44 no way. 88 probably no way as well. But those are all closer than TT.

How much? I think I'd do t175 or t225. Maybe the former for pot control reasons, but I don't honestly think it matters that much.

[Scuba Chuck]

I would have raised to 250 preflop. I think it's easier then to know where you stand.

[Insty]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have a better chance of stealing/doubling your way to the money then winning this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a good way of looking at things.


Scuba, would you then fold to a push?

[Irieguy]

[ QUOTE ]


UTG has been really quite loose and has been showing down rubbish like Q7o.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, there's 125 in the pot and you have 765 behind preflop. You rate to be ahead. There's no need to make this hand complicated.

Irieguy

[Insty]

[ QUOTE ]

Ok, there's 125 in the pot and you have 765 behind preflop. You rate to be ahead. There's no need to make this hand complicated.


[/ QUOTE ]

It seems everybody has a different opinion. And everybody seems to have good points. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

You're suggesting I just push?

(I don't think anyone has said fold preflop yet..)

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
I always struggle with what to do with TT in this type of situation pre-flop. Obviously in an MTT I'm raising. But here, in level 3 of an SNG, I am still thinking about getting to level 4 and 5 where I can start stealing and surviving to the bubble. So often I call, hoping to minimize my investment and just play some poker post-flop. Sounds like most of you think that is a poor approach?

[/ QUOTE ]

I get the whole 'stealing on the bubble thing', but why does this concept have to make us play like total pansies pre-bubble? I'm raising this pre-flop exactly 100% of the time with our stack size. And since UTG is loose, I like pushing pre-flop alot here. It's 7 handed for crying out loud, and there's one other guy in the pot when it gets to us pre-flop. Push those 10s, and watch someone call you quite frequently with a lower PP.