An old post

[Isura]

This is an old post from MHNL. The poster is limon. I'm mostly curious about point 6, since it has never occured to me. What is he getting at?

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these are the most common mistakes i see in most big bet games. well use holdem for our examples.

1. slowplaying big pairs - preflop
2. always paying off with big pairs post flop
3. massively overbetting the pot - anytime
4. drawing against short stacks
5. drawing against big stacks who wont pay off
6. limping on the button with a hand that wont make the nuts
7. calling raises w/dominated hands

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A good question. Does he mean 98s? Q10s? Both?

1 + 7 is obvious but 2-5 are really good and something we can all use a little reminding of.

[Mercman572]

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6. limping on the button with a hand that wont make the nuts

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Well any hand can potentially make the nuts (7 deuce flops quad 7s), but I believe what he means is playing a hand such as 610o, where even if you flop a straight someone can flop a higher one.

[Cosimo]

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6. limping on the button with a hand that wont make the nuts

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Well any hand can potentially make the nuts (7 deuce flops quad 7s), but I believe what he means is playing a hand such as 610o, where even if you flop a straight someone can flop a higher one.

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But why the button?

I can think of hands like 23s, which can make the nut low flush, bottom two pair, etc, as well as 2- and 3-gappers that can't make the nut straight.

Should I never limp those, or is it OK to limp them from MP? I'd guess he's saying that the mistake is calling too liberally with these hands on the button, ie peeps don't limp MP with these hands but they will on the button.

ie the mistake is over-valuing position and calling too liberally.

[DoomSlice]

I think he's talking about hands that generally make top-pair hands: AKo, KJ, etc...

I am not sure what cards he is talking about, but I think he is advocating a raise or fold line more often when in position.

[Bukem_]

He is talking about hands like J5s, 38s, T4o.

[Isura]

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He is talking about hands like J5s, 38s, T4o.

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But why the button? Is he implying that hands like K8s are safer to play in raised pots against 2 or less opponents? Since in an unraised pot, people are less likely to go broke with non-nut hands, so stuff like K8s or smaller straights end up being the 2nd best hand too often?

I understood it to mean: he often sees players limping with these hands just because they have the button. Doing this is a mistake. It would also be a mistake to limp with these hands from other positions, but he doesn't see players doing that so often.

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He is talking about hands like J5s, 38s, T4o.

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But why the button? Is he implying that hands like K8s are safer to play in raised pots against 2 or less opponents? Since in an unraised pot, people are less likely to go broke with non-nut hands, so stuff like K8s or smaller straights end up being the 2nd best hand too often?

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[4_2_it]

He may be referring to misplaying the button like many misplay the SB.

Hey 3 limpers, only $1 to me, this 47o could hit a monster and I have postion!

[beavens]

if ive got a marginal hand and i'm gonna play it from the button, i will be raising.

but i guess that doesnt need to be said to anyone /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Isura]

Cool, makes sense. I was probably looking too deep into the statement.

[limon]

well what i meant is the button affords you the opprtunity to win 2 ways hit or steal. when you limp you have to hit and when you limp w/ something like 45s you often hit UNDER someone else which is awful. when you limp w/ kqs you often hit on top of someone else which is good. remember when a pot is limped everyone is drawing to hit the nuts and often times someone does, so why limp to a loser?

ive said this many times. most who read SS misunderstood the chapter on small suited connectors. they are to be played in a raised pot in position. if no one else has done the raising you got to do it for yourself.

RE: #7...a more accurate statement would be calling raises in dominated situations. against a solid/thinking player you should almost always re-raise or fold. calling for "implied odds" doest work here because they wont pay you off any more than you will pay them off.
RE: #3...there are times when it it right to massively overbet but they are rare.

heres a tidbit...the closer you can get to knowing your opponents exact two hole cards the closer you can get to playing any 2 hole cards.

While I think your advice is 100% accurate against good opponents it is probably less accurate in some of the very loose games out there.

[Allinlife]

come on we don't need you to disagree with limon when he decides to post for once in blue moon.. he is one of most knowledgeble/experienced NL player on the boards...if you are gonna disagree, clearly state your arguement with well thought out reasons so at least your self and others can benefit from the debate.

thanks for that elaboration on raise/fold vs solid/thinking player thing...I think I was not adjusting properly to the regulars and I think that advice would help alot.

post moreee limon!

[Isura]

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post moreee limon!

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[Godfather80]

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well what i meant is the button affords you the opprtunity to win 2 ways hit or steal. when you limp you have to hit and when you limp w/ something like 45s you often hit UNDER someone else which is awful. when you limp w/ kqs you often hit on top of someone else which is good. remember when a pot is limped everyone is drawing to hit the nuts and often times someone does, so why limp to a loser?

ive said this many times. most who read SS misunderstood the chapter on small suited connectors. they are to be played in a raised pot in position. if no one else has done the raising you got to do it for yourself.

RE: #7...a more accurate statement would be calling raises in dominated situations. against a solid/thinking player you should almost always re-raise or fold. calling for "implied odds" doest work here because they wont pay you off any more than you will pay them off.
RE: #3...there are times when it it right to massively overbet but they are rare.

heres a tidbit...the closer you can get to knowing your opponents exact two hole cards the closer you can get to playing any 2 hole cards.

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