(55) overpair in 50-way pot [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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schwza

12-14-2005, 03:37 PM

comments on all streets.

i have 665 left. no, i don't remember how bubble doubled up.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1045)
Hero (t960)
MP1 (t990)
MP2 (t955)
MP3 (t1045)
CO (t940)
Button (t2100)
SB (t910)
BB (t1055)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to t55, MP1 calls t55, MP2 calls t55, 2 folds, Button calls t55, SB calls t45, BB calls t40.

Flop: (t330) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t240, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Button calls t240, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (t810) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
hero?

pineapple888

12-14-2005, 03:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
comments on all streets.

i have 665 left. no, i don't remember how bubble doubled up.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1045)
Hero (t960)
MP1 (t990)
MP2 (t955)
MP3 (t1045)
CO (t940)
Button (t2100)
SB (t910)
BB (t1055)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to t55, MP1 calls t55, MP2 calls t55, 2 folds, Button calls t55, SB calls t45, BB calls t40.

Flop: (t330) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t240, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Button calls t240, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (t810) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

is probably screwed. Try to check it down, I guess. Previous action looks fine.

downtown

12-14-2005, 03:47 PM

hero barfs over self...

PF is good, 55 is my typical lvl1 pf raise at the 55s. It's just so damn easy to type, why raise any other amount? (A bit of sarcasm there.)

Flop is ok, but I'm starting to get nervous since there are 24326546 to that flop. What's with all the callers? Weird table. This is a pretty terrible flop for you, but I would bet it as well, and your bet size is fine.

But again, I would probably barf and check/fold the turn. I can't think of any hands you might be ahead of that cold call the flop bet.

jeffraider

12-14-2005, 03:51 PM

Oi not that turn! Check-fold maybe. It sucks but the best you were looking at before from button was A9 or JJ and now you're only beating JJ basically.

12-14-2005, 03:54 PM

A small probe bet on the flop may save you money. Not much to protect against here on this flop. The only question is really "Does someone have a ten?". Find out cheaply. A call OR raise means yes, (or a set of nines). If you got lucky and no one has a ten (or pocket 99), you may just win the pot with a small bet.

bigt439

12-14-2005, 04:36 PM

I make it 75 in EP. And yes I think it makes a big difference.

downtown

12-14-2005, 04:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I make it 75 in EP. And yes I think it makes a big difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Big difference as in you take down just the blinds way more often?

I'm actually curious.

schwza

12-14-2005, 04:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I make it 75 in EP. And yes I think it makes a big difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Big difference as in you take down just the blinds way more often?

I'm actually curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

with pretty much all of the hands i raise in EP level 1, i'd prefer that villains call with anything marginal. the argument for raising to 75 would be to get more chips in.

pineapple888

12-14-2005, 04:55 PM

downtown

12-14-2005, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I make it 75 in EP. And yes I think it makes a big difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Big difference as in you take down just the blinds way more often?

I'm actually curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

with pretty much all of the hands i raise in EP level 1, i'd prefer that villains call with anything marginal. the argument for raising to 75 would be to get more chips in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand, but my question is does it work? I think even $55 donks tighten up to a 5BB raise from EP... but I'm not putting anything past them.

FWIW, I once noticed a regular open raising to 10BBs in level 1... I got to heads up with him and asked him in the chat if this worked well for him, but he was tight lipped... interesting to discuss, but I'll stick with 55 myself.

curtains

12-14-2005, 05:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I make it 75 in EP. And yes I think it makes a big difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

I make it 45 in EP and don't think it makes a big difference at all. Personally I greatly prefer making the smaller raises.

curtains

12-14-2005, 05:03 PM

If the guy wasn't a huge stack I'd basically always just check/fold the turn. I probably will anyway, but its a bit less likely than usual that they have a ten. Basically if the board pairs and I have 5 opponents, and one of them flat calls a large bet, I generally assume I have the worst hand more often than not.

bigt439

12-14-2005, 05:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I make it 75 in EP. And yes I think it makes a big difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Big difference as in you take down just the blinds way more often?

I'm actually curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

with pretty much all of the hands i raise in EP level 1, i'd prefer that villains call with anything marginal. the argument for raising to 75 would be to get more chips in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see it as a slightly different goal: get the same number of chips in the middle as in this hand, but with fewer donks in the pot to outdraw you.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is key. Not only does it build a pot it also protects your hand. I've found that it usually works to get the pot HU or 3-way the majority of the time. I have the best hand the vast majority of the time and I would like as many chips, within reason in a HU or 3-way pot (preferably HU with QQ). I'm very shocked / interested by curtains line of raising to 45. I don't like it, but obviously it's working fine for you. I don't see how you can say it doesn't make a difference though. The range that BB's will call 30 for that they wouldn't have called 60 for alone has a huge impact on the hand.

curtains

12-14-2005, 05:18 PM

You are shocked? Cmon the pot is rarely ever 6 way, even wehn I raise to 45. Very often I just win the blinds or get 1-2 opponents. Yse on rare occasions there will be a huge party joining me postflop, but this isn't the end of the world if you can make good decisions...you are still going to win some big pots even in multiway fields, when you flop an overpair in the low buyin games.

curtains

12-14-2005, 05:18 PM

Maybe if the BB is the type of player who can't fold top pair no matter what, that you want them calling for 30 chips?

bigt439

12-14-2005, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]

You are shocked? Cmon the pot is rarely ever 6 way, even wehn I raise to 45. Very often I just win the blinds or get 1-2 opponents. Yse on rare occasions there will be a huge party joining me postflop, but this isn't the end of the world if you can make good decisions...you are still going to win some big pots even in multiway fields, when you flop an overpair in the low buyin games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I haven't really heard of many players doing this. Again, doesn't mean it's wrong, as I'm sure it's working fine for you, but it did throuw me for a loop. I am aware the majority of the time we don't get this sort of party with a raise to 45, but if you get it HU or 2-way almost just as much as if you raise to 75, why not get the extra chips in? Or do you not think this is true? And why make it that much easier for 33 to call you especially when you're interested in playing big pots with an overpair? I'd rather charge the hands with big implied odds and get more money in with a superior hand if I don't chase everyone else in doing so.

12-14-2005, 07:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am aware the majority of the time we don't get this sort of party with a raise to 45, but if you get it HU or 2-way almost just as much as if you raise to 75, why not get the extra chips in?

[/ QUOTE ]

Problem you don't know whether it will be one way, 6 way or no way when you raise. If you raise to 75 here with QQ you must raise a similar amount with most other hands as well, is that really what you want? Sure it would be nice to have them call for 75 when you have QQ and only invest 45 when you have 88 but you become predictable if you stick to that.

Personally I think mixing it up is best. Raise 45, 55. 65, 75, 85 whatever. Sometimes even a raise of 175 or even god forbid raise allin works well. Not to suggest allin is the play, rather saying that that there is no black and white right or wrong amount to raise period.

You both play good doing it your way and you're both winning so you're both right.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

bigt439

12-14-2005, 07:45 PM

If I make a raise from this position it is always to 75 and I almost always have the best hand. My range is quite small here as I imagine curtains' is.

tigerite

12-14-2005, 07:48 PM

I also raise t75 here, but that's just me.

12-14-2005, 08:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I also raise t75 here, but that's just me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps t72 would work better? Just kidding.

adanthar

12-14-2005, 09:09 PM

The problem with raising to t45 is that the pot is actually too small on the flop and it's harder to stack somebody. Given the hands I'm raising with and my opponents' tendencies to suck and give away chips with lower kickers etc., that's a real issue.

If you were going for uncontested, smaller pots taken down on the flop, it would work better. That might be the case in the 215's now, I'm not sure.

tigerite

12-14-2005, 09:13 PM

As is often the case, adanthar has it spot on.

People DO still suck, very much, at both $55 and $109 level for giving away their chips like that. I know many of you who haven't played especially the $109s can't believe that to be true, but it is.

At the $215s it is very possible a t45 raise is better. I really don't know, as I've never played there.