Fold or Crying Call?

[Hawkeye27]

Loose, passive 3/6 Party game.

2 EP limpers, MP raises, folded to me, I three bet with red Q's in the big blind. Everyone calls.

Flop 2 3 5 all clubs. I bet out, folded to MP who calls.

Turn is 4 of hearts completing the straight for any ace. MP was a preflop raiser. How do you play this? I checked and folded to her bet, and felt weak tight.

Comments?

[MazMan]

The raise there means you're almost definitely putting him on JJ, QQ, KK, AA, or AK or AQ, right? If you know anything about the player, you might be able to narrow it down even further. For instance, if this seems to be someone who gets overly excited at great hands, he's going to cap with AA and KK every time. The turn bet is expected. I think that on ANY of the aforementioned hands, you could expect to see that turn bet, as long as there was a club in there. Perhaps we can eliminate JJ, since the Jack isn't all that likely to hold up even if he makes the flush against the three-bettor. Reasonable to assume QQ is out as well, which means you're almost definitely behind. I think that your check of the turn shows a lot of weakness, but lets be honest, your hand was deteriorating with each passing moment. Sure the turn play makes you somewhat weak, but in that situation, what choice did you have. Unless you've established yourself as a check-raising maniac, you're going to get bet there every single time. Just muck and move on.

[redsamurai]

To me this rides on what hands MP would be willing to raise with when 2 players have limped. With you having bet the flop and checked the turn it is a perfect board to try to steal. You yielded tempo. I would have bet the turn and kept the pressure on her. If she comes back over top you are beat by the Ace or the flush, so fold. If she doesn't have the Ace she will likely fold. If she is playing the Ace or trips there is a good chance she will just call fearing the 6 or flush. If she just calls I'd check-fold the river unless I caught a river queen in which case check-call. To me checking the turn is a strong signal that you are willing to concede the pot and thus the idea spot to steal one.

Sam

[Ginogino]

Hawkeye:
There are 7 big bets in the pot when the turn card comes. What are the chances MP doesn't have an Ace? Could he have JJ or even 99? How about KQs?

If MP doesn't hold an Ace, the turn card is equally scary to him (though if one of the cards he holds is a club, he has redraws). This situation calls for use of what info you've gotten from his prior play about the way he plays. The more hands he'd raise with pre-flop, the more I'd want to try lead bet on the turn. Most always, if that bet gets raised, I'd fold. You only have to win once in six tries.

Gino

[J.R.]

Bet and fold to a raise if you have no read on the player. If they have TT, JJ, QQ, KQs or KK the board is just as scary. That said, there are also a few hands you are ahead of (JJ, TT, KQs) and this pot is big. I would probably take one more swing at it, but I can't fault you doing anything but check-calling. If you opponent calls your turn bet, I would check the river and call (??) unless a club falls. Tough question, these situations make me queezy.

[J.R.]

If she is playing the Ace or trips there is a good chance she will just call fearing the 6 or flush.

You think MP raised with 55 or puts hero on AK clubs or a 3-bet from the blinds with a 6? I disagree.

[j.k.]

If MP is a loosie or a frequent raiser, a bet and fold to a raise is not out of the question, but against most opponents, check and fold, move on to next hand. Just dont check and call.
j.k.

[redsamurai]

If she is playing the Ace or trips there is a good chance she will just call fearing the 6 or flush.

You think MP raised with 55 or puts hero on AK clubs or a 3-bet from the blinds with a 6? I disagree.

1) Seeing as I don't know how the MP plays or the table and having played in enough games where any pair will make it 2 bets I don't want to disregard a small pair. Not likely, I agree, but not imposible.

2) As for the BB making it 3 with a 6, the hand I had in mind was a pair of 6s. The goal would be to push out the limpers and get heads up. This is more of a higher limits move. As for the MP having a read of the hero having a 6 this comes from playing a those wild low limit games where players always seem to be scared of unlikely hands, "seeing ghosts" if you will.

3) I'd 3 bet with AKs, AQs, KQs. Again not likely but another "seeing ghosts" read that low limit players tend to make. The bet into a trash suited flop will have reenforced MP's fears.

These points are all secondary to my point that the hero should have bet the turn and are mostly what if scenarios.