Ken Griffey, Jr.

[B-Man]

On a poll on espn.com, 65% of respondents voted that Junior is not on track for a Hall of Fame career. I think this is ludicrous.

Here is a quick summary of Junior's accomplishments:

1. career stats coming into this season: .295 avg., .379 on base %, .562 slugging, 468 home runs (most before MLB turned into Nintendo baseball), 1358 RBIs, OPS .940.

2. Ten (10) gold gloves, an all-star 11 consecutive years (1990-2000), 1997 AL MVP, member of All-Century Team.

3. Where he stands in the all-time rankings:

24th in home runs
22nd in slugging
33rd in OPS
50th in adjusted OPS
72nd in total bases
64th in RBIs
48th in extra-base hits

He was the best player in the league for about 10 years.

Personally, I think if he retired tommorow, he should be voted into Cooperstown 5 years from now. How can anyone think he has not had a Hall of Fame career?

What do others think?

[Dynasty]

This discussion is going to take place on a pay rotisserie baseball site I use. Here's a comment from a regular poster there.

So let's play a little game here. Given everything, is this career threatening? If so, does Griffey make the Hall?

Let's say he comes back and tries to play and maybe does for a year or two but is never even a shadow of his old self. Retires after 2005. Comes up for election in 2010

In 2010 : Bonds has been retired for 3 years with right around 800 dingers

A 35 year old ARod is closing in on 600

A 37 year old Carlos Delgado is right around 500

A 33 year old Andru Jones and a 34 year old Vlad Guerrero are nearing 450

Where does Griffey stand, with 481 HR, 2100 hits, 1384 RBI's and a career .294 average?

In my view he is in. He was arguably the best player in baseball over a 5-7 year period (93-98 or thereabouts), and was once considered THE prime candidate to wind up as the all time HR king.

Back to those projections above. Those of you nodding yours heads in agreement (or those saying, 600, heck ARod will be at 800 by then) --- How many of yall thought Grifeey would catch Aaron back about 1997?

[Dynasty]

I don't think your post paints an accurate picture of Griffey's career.

468 home runs (most before MLB turned into Nintendo baseball)

MLB turned into "Nintendo baseball" back in 1994. That's when the most recent hitting explostion started. Griffey has played the majority of his career during this period and all his prime years.

He was the best player in the league for about 10 years.

What 10 year period is that? He was a rookie in 1989. He started his decline in 2000 when he joined Cincinnati. Griffey certainly wasn't the best player in the game during his first few years (Rickey Henderson comes to mind). He was great in 1994 but injured in 1995. 1996 was his first monster year with .303, 42, 140.

I'll give him credit for 1996 through 1999 at best. However, ARod had probaby taken that title away from him by '99.

[B-Man]

MLB turned into "Nintendo baseball" back in 1994. That's when the most recent hitting explostion started. Griffey has played the majority of his career during this period and all his prime years.

My unscientific observation was that the offensive explosion started in the late 90s and has continued. After reading your email, I did a quick check of the stats. In 1994, there were 1774 home runs in the AL, which was about average for the period 1988-1994. In 1995, there were over 2,100 home runs, and in 1996, there were 2,742. Since then the fewest number of home runs that have been hit in the AL for a season is 2464. In the NL, the trend is similar.

So, Griffey played some of his prime in the Nintendo era, but certainly doesn't have as many prime years in this era as players like A-Rod, Delgado, Vlad, Andruw, or even Bonds (who is either still in his prime at an advanced age or is in a steroid-induced second prime).

What 10 year period is that? He was a rookie in 1989. He started his decline in 2000 when he joined Cincinnati. Griffey certainly wasn't the best player in the game during his first few years (Rickey Henderson comes to mind). He was great in 1994 but injured in 1995. 1996 was his first monster year with .303, 42, 140.

I didn't say he was the best player in the AL every year for 10 years, but from 1990 - 1999, I would say he was probably the best overall player in the AL. For several of those years he was the best player, and for the rest of the years he was very good (or injured, as you noted).

[Uston]

Frank Thomas had one of the best eight year runs in baseball history from 1990 to 1997. And there's no way Griffey's glove was making up for the scores of extra runs Thomas was generating with his bat.

[B-Man]

From 1990 - 1999 (the period I mentioned in my other post), Griffey had more hits, doubles, triples, home runs, runs and RBIs than Thomas. He also had a better slugging percentage, though Thomas edges him in avg. and on-base percentage.

Overall, Griffey's stats are superior.

Now factor in that Griffey won the gold-glove virtually every year, and Thomas is a terrible first baseman who DH'd 33% of his games during that period, and it is a pretty ludicrous comparison.

Here is the stat comparison:

Griffey vs. Thomas, 1990-1999 (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats_historical/mlb_historical_player_stats.jsp?compare.x=&box6=XX XX123245XXXX&section1=null&statSet1=null&statType= 1&sortByStat=AB&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=1990&time SubFrame=1991&timeSubFrame=1992&timeSubFrame=1993& timeSubFrame=1994&timeSubFrame=1995&timeSubFrame=1 996&timeSubFrame=1997&timeSubFrame=1998&timeSubFra me=1999&baseballScope=AL&isCompare=true&sitSplit=& teamPosCode=O&HS=true&box1=XXXX115135seaO&checkBox Total=0&playerLocator=thomas)

[Dynasty]

In 1994, there were 1774 home runs in the AL, which was about average for the period 1988-1994.

Did you forget that the 1994 season ended with the player's strike on August 12? Those 1,774 home runs were hit in about 2/3 of a regular season.

[B-Man]

Actually, yes, I forget about the strike. That changes things.

Still, the bigger explosion was in the late '90s, but 1994 does appear to be the start.

[Dynasty]

The late '90's did see another small bump. But, 1994 was the big one.

In addition to Thomas, don't forget about Albert Belle. From 1992-1995, Griffey, Thomas, and Belle emerged as the big three hitters in the American League.

Juan Gonzales was also emerging. Rickey Henderson and Jose Canseco were starting to fade.

[B-Man]

In addition to Thomas, don't forget about Albert Belle. From 1992-1995, Griffey, Thomas, and Belle emerged as the big three hitters in the American League.

All three were excellent hitters, no doubt. But one is a 10-time gold glove winner, and the other two were poor fielders at less important, less demanding positions.

[Uston]

Thomas didn't "edge" Griffey in BA and OBP. He demolished Griffey. Like Max Bishop, Eddie Stanky, and Eddie Yost, BB machines are generally underappreciated by most baseball fans. You're forgetting that important thing a hitter can do is not make outs. Griffey made a ton more outs.

[B-Man]

On-base% is very important, no doubt. But it is not the only stat to look at. Griffey was better in virtually every other category, including the highly important category of slugging %.

As a fielder, there is no comparison. So whether you view Griffey as a slightly better hitter than Thomas, or Thomas as a slightly better hitter than Griffey, or the two as roughly equal, there is no question Griffey was a better player during the 1990s, which was what I said.

[Joe Tall]

In 2010 : Bonds has been retired for 3 years with right around 800 dingers

Bonds has self proclaimed to beat out Ruth and leave Aaron's record alone.

A 33 year old Andru Jones and a 34 year old Vlad Guerrero are nearing 450

Unfortunately, Vlad's injury this year is alot more serious than anyone thinks, I hope I'm wrong but this could jepordize everything.

Too bad Andruw is a lifetime .265 hitter, however, I'm amazed at his HR totals by playing half his games in Atlanta, if he was in Fenway, he'd have 500+ at 33 yrs old.

Griffey is a hands down hall a famer.

Bobby Doerr - Hall of Fame
H: 2042 HR: 223 RBI: 1247 BA: .288

Bill Mazeroski - Hall of Fame (8 Gold Gloves)
H: 2016 HR: 138 RBI: 853 BA: .260

Griffey has the numbers.

[andyfox]

If he retires tomorrow, and leads a good life between the day after tomorrow and the first time he's eligible to get in (no brushes with the law, no bad publicitiy), he gets in comfortably on the first ballot. If Griffy gets to 500 home runs, there will be no debate.

Dve Kingman is the only eligible guy with over 400 home runs who isn't in (and who will never get it).