MySpace Opener Theory Discussion

[MrWookie47]

I thought about putting this in the original thread, (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4155395) but this would likely get lost amidst all the status reports (not knocking them - they're great). I figure we'll let that thread crash and burn in due course, and we'll hammer out the instruction manual over here. Anyway, if we're going to succeed at this, I think we need to work harder on our openers. I'm not convinced that Inside? is all that and a bag of peanuts, but we haven't got anything that is much better.

Here's at least a start on what a good opener should be:

1. It should set you apart from other guys.
2. It should make the girl want to ask you questions.

In a sense, Inside? accomplishes both those goals. It's different, and she'll be wondering about it. But this is offset by the fact that she may just instantly conclude you're a freak, and she's also not asking questions about you, she's asking questions about Inside?. Maybe we need a couple more stipulations:

3. Those questions should ideally be about you.
4. The opener should make it obvious you're not a weirdo/stalker/rapist/wimp.

The other thing I tried is referring to her profile in your opener. I asked a (fantastically hot) girl who had "i'm looking for baggage that can match with mine," written in her profile, "Does it fit under the seat in front of you?" I got a quick response, laughter, but she didn't seem all that interested in finding about more to me. (It may also be that this girl is just unapproachable. She has over 100 friends and every last one of them is a guy who's drooling over her. It is almost certainly a ridiculously uphill battle to get her to care.) I think I met goals 1 and 4, but I didn't really get 2 or 3. The other weakness in this approach is that a bland profile with nothing that jumps out at you as the above did for me, you'll have a hard time accomplishing goal #1. Commenting on her music is likely to get you nowhere (although this speculation is unsubstantiated).

So, what do you think, guys? Do you have any other ideas how to accomplish the above goals? Are those goals are utter crap and should we come up with a new set? Also, what have your success rates been with various openers? How frequently do you get responses? Conversations? I don't think we necessarily need to consider the frequency with which you get dates. The conversation presumably does that, but, eh, I guess we can include it. Please, don't lie or exaggerate here. This is done in the name of science.

[chuddo]

as i stated in the other thread, i think just a form of the simple hello with possible compliment is the way to go.

if she either finds you attractive from your pictures, interesting from your profile, or both, she will get back to you to initiate conversation.

if she doesn't reply, she isn't interested. simple. if she does reply, then you can get back to her with something more substantial.

i created my account after this thread was created, and here are my stats:

-146 profile views.
-187 messages from probably ~70-80 women.
-23 friend requests.
-9 messages out of the blue. most compliments and telling me to fill out my profile, which is as sparse as it gets.

[MrWookie47]

80? Dang, dude, I think you'll have to offer up some more schooling than that, as well as a link to your profile. Also, you've gotten responses from 70-80 women. How many did you message to begin with? What would you say is the average rating of those women (3 or 10 point scale)? Can you provide a sample message that worked?

[d10]

I believe that points 1 and 2 are more a function of your profile than your opener.

This is the opener that I copy/paste to anyone within 50 miles of me:

Subject: I love Alabama
Body: Hey I was just looking around on here for anyone that lived around me (Enterprise). I just moved here and I don't know the area at all. Is there anything to do around here? I haven't seen much closer than Atlanta but driving 200 miles for something to do is getting a bit old.

This works well for me because (1) Alabama sucks, everyone knows it, and chicks are eager to talk to someone who can sypathize with how much Alabama sucks, (2) It provides a legitimate reason for initiating a coversation. Although the real reason is that the girl has hot pictures up and I want to get in her pants, you can't make this known too soon, or you will come across as either a perv or just like every other guy who messages her. Initiate conversation, display your game, then make your intentions known. Also, (3) The response is always either "There's nothing to do here, AL sucks" or "Yeah you can go here or here" and in either case you're set up well to ask for a date as early as the second message if you feel the time is right.

This might not work for everyone else, because it's very dependent on my situation, but hopefully some people can adapt it or use parts of it to develop their own intro. I'm sitting at about a 50% response rate right now with this message.

Edit: Also (4) I hate Atlanta, and I never go there for fun. I threw that part in there to imply that I like to travel and I like to get away from Alabama, both of which are very common feelings among the average girl I message.

[MrWookie47]

Good stuff, guys. Keep it coming. 50% responses is pretty solid. Of those, how frequently do you get a conversation going?

[d10]

[ QUOTE ]
Of those, how frequently do you get a conversation going?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right now that's all of them, but I've only been doing this for a few days. It's likely that many of these conversations will die out soon, and it's possible that some may have already died out but I just don't realize it yet because the last message is too recent.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

Chuddo is too cool for school. His tone is generally condescending because he thinks people look up to him for the Olivia fiasco.

Opener isn't too important as long as you don't tell her that she's "hot." Somebody in the other thread mentioned that they created a fake female profile and these "you're hot" comments come all the time. Don't try it. Save compliments for later messages/actual meetings. Also you shouldn't get long winded. One or two sentences is plenty.

Your profile, attractiveness, and apparent normality are really the keys for a response.

One thing I've noticed looking in the OOTiots Myspace group is that a lot of you guys have pictures of yourselves sitting at the poker table. That's really lame. You need pictures of yourself doing things other than poker. Pics with other chicks, drinking, playing an instrument... these kinds of things.

[ QUOTE ]
One thing I've noticed looking in the OOTiots Myspace group is that a lot of you guys have pictures of yourselves sitting at the poker table. That's really lame. You need pictures of yourself doing things other than poker. Pics with other chicks, drinking, playing an instrument... these kinds of things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm...this is actually interesting, is this because poker is bad or because it's cliche for all of us? I mean, people at the GuitarPlayer.com forums might be saying the same thing about dudes playing guitar in their pictures.

I have one pic of me playing poker, and 7 pics of other things, so I think it's balanced.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

A picture of yourself at a poker table will be substantially less appealing to a girl than a picture of yourself playing guitar. This is a fact.

[chuddo]

bep, not too cool for school. i just thought the "inside?" thing was quite lame and not as effective as a simple hello.

for the record i asked 3 of my cute/normal/cool girl-friends and they all said it was pretty weak and they gave it a thumbs down. that is empirical evidence baby.

but like i said, whatever works for you.

also from the olivia fiasco i looked like a huge douche both for insinuating i bagged her when asking the initial post, and in the conversation she posted where i overly apologized (bear in mind i was trying to still salvage it at that point).

but hey, good luck.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

It's just the tone of your posts man. You're just too damn cool for school.

I completely agree that "Inside?" isn't the end-all-be-all...

[diebitter]

I think you hit the nail on the head there, oh big furry one.

Anything that gets her responding without being insulting is fine. Short ambiguous phrases are fine, I think, (like 'inside?') as are ambiguously-phrased questions relating to their profile/pictures (ambiguous in the sense it's not clear whether you approve or disapprove of the thing - she'll get curious and ask).

perhaps some modification to that long-ass speech I posted which has some reference about her profile would be the good tack too?

eg

I've been with many races of chicks....
I've tasted tang in all 4 corners of the earth, and on every one of the seven seas...
I have contradicted myself and still been understood..
I have <insert reference here>,
But I wasted my time, cos I never myspaced you until now...


eg if she likes Eminiem, try
'I have stomped on Eminem disks, and then regretted it'

if she likes Brad Pitt movies
'I have watched Brad Pit get wasted and punched'

and so on.

[d10]

[ QUOTE ]
for the record i asked 3 of my cute/normal/cool girl-friends and they all said it was pretty weak and they gave it a thumbs down. that is empirical evidence baby.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that I'm supporting the inside? method or anything, but if the girls who received these messages knew what the purpose of the message was, they would probably say it's pretty weak too. It works because they have no idea what it means. I think it's already proven to be effective. Whether or not it's optimal is a different story.

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]
A picture of yourself at a poker table will be substantially less appealing to a girl than a picture of yourself playing guitar. This is a fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry. My scanner is broke and a new one should've been here already. I could only find 3 pics of myself already up on the web somewhere. I still haven't really been sending out messages. I'm just responding to the ones I get. My Myspace plan goes into effect when I move in January...BTW, I need a lease for the Spring in Champaign, IL.

[scotty34]

Do you guys put any reference to your p***r skills in your profile? Just listing it as an interest doesn't mean anything, as probably half the guys in college play it from time to time. If you are actually a good player and rake in some pretty good cash from it, do you make that known? Most people I talk to are very intrigued to learn more about it.

[MyTurn2Raise]

some reference it, some don't
I choose not to so much since I'm a low-limit donk, and it's been my experience in B&M pickups that girls do not dig 'gamblers'

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
for the record i asked 3 of my cute/normal/cool girl-friends and they all said it was pretty weak and they gave it a thumbs down. that is empirical evidence baby.

[/ QUOTE ]
Could you possibly be any less scientific in your methodology?

[ QUOTE ]
A picture of yourself at a poker table will be substantially less appealing to a girl than a picture of yourself playing guitar. This is a fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

what if the table is covered with an obscene amount of money?

[MrWookie47]

Then you attract gold diggers and whoooooooooers.

[TeeJayORTj]

I thought that was the idea behind it all....

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
Then you attract gold diggers and whoooooooooers.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if they get one sniff of your filthy lucre, I tell ya, they'll suck you dry...

[MrWookie47]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought that was the idea behind it all....

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but you turn off the generic sluts because they see you as another cocky bastard. The sluts are the ideal targets.

[rusellmj]

[ QUOTE ]
Then you attract gold diggers and whoooooooooers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Women are attracted to money, power and fame. If you can imply that you have any of the three in any combination you can pull interest.

I think listing you make money playing p***r in your profile should be +EP.

[TeeJayORTj]

I am generally not a fan of the whole "+ev" posts in OOT...but +ep...I love it!

[gonores]

I haven't read the huge-ass thread and I know very little about myspace, but I think I get the jist of what is going on here. Half of 2+2 is trying to hook up with these chicks online, no?

If that's true, then

[ QUOTE ]
2. It should make the girl want to ask you questions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is something that failed miserably for me (though I've only tried it in real life...maybe this whole internet hookup thing is way different). A good cold-call (in the telemarketing sense, not the poker sense) opening line should

1. Be funny/entertaining
2. Open the girl up to talk about herself, particularly about that beautiful person that lies beneath those D cups that no one ever bothers to see.

The whole game is not about you. It's about her trying to validate herself. 90% of the hot girls who would go through posting these pictures (which I assume are purposely hot...cute poses with clothes/light/other crap that highlight her better parts) know that these pictures are going to attract males who will tell them how hot they look, which in turn will lead these guys to kiss their asses and tell them how they are such great people and how they share such a deep connection. These girls have low self-esteem. Do NOT give them that validation they are seeking. That's how you end up getting played just like most, if not all, of the 100 guys on this chick's profile. Trust me...I know. I've been played a lot and I know a lot of guys who get played a lot. If you don't give them that validation, they will come after you to get it, even if it means she has to seduce you and sleep with you to make sure you like her.

Make jokes
Get her talking about herself
Get her on the defensive

You are the prize to be won...not her.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

truetruetrue

[young nut]

Well, I don't have that large of a sample size yet, but of the 10 girls I messaged with 'inside?' 6 have written me back. The responses have all been very similar, 'huh?' 'what?' 'inside what?'

I do have to say though, I've tried to get the conversations rolling after their first reply, but I can't tell if they think i'm a weirdo for completely avoiding the fact that I just wrote "inside?" for the contact message.

I think closing and volume are the two key factors. Once you get a few messages with her, look for an angle to close on, i.e. meet up somewhere and do something that she points out she likes, or offer AIM or MSN info. And volume seems to be a critical factor for success. If conversations dry up or go nowhere, you got other messages in your box to act on. The law of large numbers, which is our specialty, will eventually pay off.

[[censored]]

alright i think everyone works differently but two things have really improved my results so far.

#1 I gave up on chicks under 24, I decided A) it was too much to compete with the college guys and most importantly B) girls 24+, know whats up and aren't as into having a [censored] load of friends for giggles. They are looking to hook up. And I think it's a more realistic target for myself

#2) I have been picking some small tidbit of info from there profile, asking a question and using that to start a conversation. I try and do it a way that shows some humor but this isn't always possible. I go with something small like one girl had Frank Sinatra listed under music which so I went with that.

[diebitter]

Sterling work. I think that's excellent advice for the non-numbers players.

And it's good to have your true cenobite self back.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]


And it's good to have your true cenobite self back.

[/ QUOTE ]

cenobite explain?

[MrWookie47]

Gonores, your post, BIMO. This definitely must be taken into account in the opener.

[The Truth]

Post deleted by The Truth

[BCPVP]

Post deleted by BCPVP

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
Best in my opinion? I'd like to know for sure, too!

[/ QUOTE ]brilliant in my opinion. There's a picture and thread that goes along with it that's hilarious.

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Best in my opinion? I'd like to know for sure, too!

[/ QUOTE ]brilliant in my opinion. There's a picture and thread that goes along with it that's hilarious.

[/ QUOTE ]

link?

[DukeSucks]

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/3406/brilliantimo9cn.jpg

[MrWookie47]

I have been thinking about your post some more, gonores. I think that if we never generate enough interest in her to get her to want to ask us questions about ourselves, then I think we've by definition failed. However, it may be that accomplishing this is virtually impossible for an opener. We can save seeing if she's willing to ask about us either for the following conversation, or for the first meeting, depending on how quickly you get things rolling (quicker is better, IMO). Good stuff, man.

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Best in my opinion? I'd like to know for sure, too!

[/ QUOTE ]brilliant in my opinion. There's a picture and thread that goes along with it that's hilarious.

[/ QUOTE ]

link?

[/ QUOTE ]I found the thread.
http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/show...part=1&vc=1 (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1972657&page=0&fpart=1&v c=1)

[kenberman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Best in my opinion? I'd like to know for sure, too!

[/ QUOTE ]brilliant in my opinion. There's a picture and thread that goes along with it that's hilarious.

[/ QUOTE ]

link?

[/ QUOTE ]I found the thread.
http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/show...part=1&vc=1 (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1972657&page=0&fpart=1&v c=1)

[/ QUOTE ]

wow. from page 6 of that thread:

[ QUOTE ]

my neighbor gets hot hoes from myspace. I'm thinking about doing it.



I work with a girl that has screwed 3 guys she met on myspace in the last 5 months. I mean she's a whore, but if you're into meeting slutty chicks with no self-esteem, this place is a goldmine.

[/ QUOTE ]

how did it take 9 months for OOT to hop on this gravy train?

we should have all listened to ASFuji back then.

[illusionS]

[ QUOTE ]

how did it take 9 months for OOT to hop on this gravy train?


[/ QUOTE ]

Haha yeah.. were hittin sloppy seconds. [censored], probably sloppy thirds or forths by now.

OK guys, read and re-read gonores post. The guy is obviously on top of his game. He's spot on with the entire post.

You guys that are looking for the holy grail of an openor that will get girls running at you pussy first are crazy. You're gonna come up short. There is no secret line or perfect magical formula (there ARE some key ingredients to the formula though). Nearly every girl should get a different opener tailored specifically to what her profile suggests she's interested in.

Once you get the converstation going, be yourself. You need to be conversing in a style that your used to or else it will sound weird.

As far as the "magic formula," it's different for each girl. From my experience though, these ingredients are generally present: true self-confidence, humor/wit, displaying some sort of value, and not being so [censored] weird. Now, since were talking on the computer, I would focus mostly on humor and not being weird. And atleast make sure not to say anything "unconfident."

If you want to put forth minimal effort and go with the mass messaging or "multi-tabling" technique, I think "Inside?" is pretty damn good. It should get atleast a simple first response. Understand that is all it is for, a first response, a means to an end. Then go with a witty line playing off her profile. Work your natural game from there. If she immediatly thinks "inside" is really weird, [censored] BAIL ON IT. Go with the "just making sure you were inside cause its chilly outside" or something like that. You gotta work on the fly.

If you guys find this at all helpful I'll post some tips on profiles.

One last thing, if you get nothing out of this thread atleast internalize this part of gonores post: "You are the prize to be won...not her."

[ QUOTE ]
as i stated in the other thread, i think just a form of the simple hello with possible compliment is the way to go.

if she either finds you attractive from your pictures, interesting from your profile, or both, she will get back to you to initiate conversation.

if she doesn't reply, she isn't interested. simple. if she does reply, then you can get back to her with something more substantial.

i created my account after this thread was created, and here are my stats:

-146 profile views.
-187 messages from probably ~70-80 women.
-23 friend requests.
-9 messages out of the blue. most compliments and telling me to fill out my profile, which is as sparse as it gets.

[/ QUOTE ]

How did you get so many views, etc? I created mine 3 days ago and have had only 4 views. Weird thing is that when I search for my profile (using a keyword or whatever), my profile never comes up in my searches.

[chuddo]

i guess it was just a result of them seeing my thumbnail picture and opening email, and caring enough to click to check out my profile?

[ QUOTE ]
i guess it was just a result of them seeing my thumbnail picture and opening email, and caring enough to click to check out my profile?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohhhh, so you emailed alot of people? I thought they came to you unsolicited.

[gonores]

OK....first things first. Lets stop trying to romanticize this thing and define what is going on. You're trying to [censored] a hot chick. You're not trying to find a soulmate, or even a long-term relationship...even though that might accidentally happen, your dream scenario would be to pick up one or more hot chicks that will come over when you ask, [censored] you, and leave. Do not lie to yourself about this. Being honest with yourself is a critical premise to developing a successful hookup.

Okay. Let's wrestle with your position here.

[ QUOTE ]
I think that if we never generate enough interest in her to get her to want to ask us questions about ourselves, then I think we've by definition failed.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have things a little backwards here. Let's say you've successfully initiated conversation with her with a very witty opening line, and you've got her talking about herself. You've got her laughing and you've got her wondering if she is as great as all those other guys tell her. Assess the situation. All she knows about you is that you can make her laugh, you’re somewhat interested in her, and you listen to Ratt and Whitesnake and you love watching Different Strokes....or whatever is on your profile. THAT'S PERFECT. At this point, she doesn't know you're flawed, and she knows you know she is flawed. In her mind, she is now fighting an uphill battle to attain you.

Remember what I said before…if these girls took the effort to post explicitly attractive pictures of themselves online, they more than likely have low self-esteem. Take a look at the girls you know in real life who have genuinely low self-esteem. These girls are easy to find because they are constantly in bad relationships, they have [censored] jobs cuz they didn't think they could get through college (or they got through college but couldn’t land a great job for whatever shortcomings they have), and they dress, at least to some degree, like sluts. A common thread between these girls is they are looking for their Prince Charming...apparently, to them, finding the guy of their dreams will solve their problems. So they start projecting Prince Charming qualities upon guys until they are proven otherwise. This is why you don't want her to find out much about you....you're not Prince Charming…I’m sure you’re a great guy who is funny, smart, good looking, etc, but no guy on earth is Prince Charming. Plus, if you don't talk about yourself, you get the label of "mysterious." Mysterious is always good.

If you have her laughing and finding you insightful (and you have her emotionally exposed), you're now engaged in a race against your own information flow to get her in the sack. As soon as she figures out that your just want to [censored] her and throw her on the whore heap when you're sick of her sh*t, you're dead….and she will find out after you expose enough of yourself…most chicks are blessed with decent BS detectors.

(Keep in mind this next paragraph is simply my speculation…like I said, I’ve never tried to do the internet hookup thing before)

So how to approach from here? This is where you can really take advantage of the medium you are using to communicate. Use the anonymity of the internet to your advantage. When she replies to you, take a day or two to respond. This continues to project your “mysterious” image. It shows her that you are not in a desperate, “OHMYGODINEEDTOSTUFFMYCOCKINANORIFICEBEFORESUNDOWN ORITWILLFALLOFF” state. It also gives you a little time to think out a witty, smart response to her (this is like George Costanza said…always leave them wanting more). Keep your responses short, and remember to keep her laughing, keep her talking about herself, and keep her on the defensive. Keep this up for a while before actually trying to meet her…I’m guessing (remember, I’m not sure how this online angle works) you can actually get her to ask you to meet in most cases…and if you can get a hot girl online to ask you to meet up but you still can’t get her in the sack, talk to Dominic…you need professional help.

*Disclaimer – Yes, I realize this is a shallow and critical view of women. I’m trying to convey the knowledge I have on how to hook up. There are plenty of relationship-worthy girls out there who don’t fall for any of this crap in this post, but like I said before…you’re just trying to get laid. If you’re trying to find a quality girl, do the opposite of everything I said, including going on myspace.

PS – I really wanted to post this on it’s own, because it’s about as good as I can get when it comes to picking up chicks, but I figure that if it is good enough to post on its own, a mod can do it for me or someone else can repost it.

[MyTurn2Raise]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Best in my opinion? I'd like to know for sure, too!

[/ QUOTE ]brilliant in my opinion. There's a picture and thread that goes along with it that's hilarious.

[/ QUOTE ]

link?

[/ QUOTE ]I found the thread.
http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/show...part=1&vc=1 (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1972657&page=0&fpart=1&v c=1)

[/ QUOTE ]



wow. from page 6 of that thread:

[ QUOTE ]

my neighbor gets hot hoes from myspace. I'm thinking about doing it.



I work with a girl that has screwed 3 guys she met on myspace in the last 5 months. I mean she's a whore, but if you're into meeting slutty chicks with no self-esteem, this place is a goldmine.

[/ QUOTE ]

how did it take 9 months for OOT to hop on this gravy train?

we should have all listened to ASFuji back then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amzingly enough, we were so wrapped into the Olivia incident (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3358112&page=0&fpart=all &vc=1) a few months ago and the underlying myspace adventures were totally ignored. Two good chances to have already done this stuff.

[ScottyP431]

Gonores,

I think you have some decent points, but I think that you and many others are making a fundamental error in dealing with the internet hook up. The most important thing here is continuity. That means that when you see her in person, you need to be the person you purport to be. So, if you are not witty and clever in person, than don't spend 3 days coming up with a witty response to her message, becuase when she meets you and you're a doofus, the jig is up. Same with pics etc. "Mysterious" works to a point, but you still have to meet her to bang her.

[MyTurn2Raise]

BEP even commented early on in the Olivia thread how ironic it was that two of the best OOT threads were myspace related...His genius is shining through.

[Georgia Avenue]

gonores,

this is close to my thinking about women. I bet the Good Doctor would approve as well, were he around. Thing is, I don't think women ACTUALLY think that you are solely interested in their brains...even dumb women are aware of what you want f'real. What they want is the game, the chase, where you try to win them by feats of wit/coolness. By tipping the balance, putting them on the defensive, as you've said, you haven't really tricked them into thinking that your some Awesome Superhero who hates p***y, but you have got them thinking about you as an equal, someone they have to respect. This does border on the whole "women like jerks" idea that I've disagreed with in the past...I think women just like confidence (like men for that matter, but we'll happily sleep with an self-conscious women...we'll just feel bad the next day!).

Anyway, great post. I agree with your strategy, but not your reasoning. Treat women like human beings...that is, socialized monkeys whose base instincts are usually disguised in psychological costumes as "reasons".

Wishing I was single so I could school all y'all in the art of seduction,

--GA

[gonores]

Okay...firstly I'd like to clarify that the whole "coming up with a great response" benefit of waiting a day or two is an ancilliary benefit. The main reason to wait is to make yourself inaccessible...this concept is not new. We've waited 1+ days to call a girl since the phone was invented.

[ QUOTE ]
becuase when she meets you and you're a doofus, the jig is up.

[/ QUOTE ]

So your theory is that if you are a doofus, you best chance for success would be to act like a doofus? Sorry, dude, but the smart and witty types get the girls. If you're socially awkward and not particularly engaging with women, you can and should practice becoming smart/witty...don't accept your doofusness as something you can't change.

[ScottyP431]

Gonores,

I didn't disagree with waiting, that is fine. I'm saying, don't put energy into creating an image that you cannot keep up in person. Even if being witty helps you get girls, building up the expectation in her mind that you are Woody Allen is a bad idea if when she meets you, you're a putz.

If you are shy, be the shy guy. If you are goofy, be the goofy guy. I dont think its gonna work to spend all your time thinking "what would vince vaughn in swingers do" if you aren't vince vaughn from swingers. When she shows up and you're mikey, shes gonna feel decieved.

"Sorry, dude, but the smart and witty types get the girls."

That is almost too funny. While the top 1 or 2 percent of smart/witty dudes are getting girls, to say they are the dominant force in the battle for poon is... misguided at best.

"If you're socially awkward and not particularly engaging with women, you can and should practice becoming smart/witty...don't accept your doofusness as something you can't change. "

If you want to work on being witty, fine. You aren't going to get witty in the time between email number 2 and meeting number 1 most likely, however. Not being witty also does not equal socially awkward. Actually, pretty much everything you said completely missed my point. If you can't be witty on the fly, in person, than you are screwed is my only point. Because she will show up thinking that is who you are, when it isn't, you're toast.

[gonores]

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What they want is the game, the chase, where you try to win them by feats of wit/coolness.

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole premise of my argument is you're gonna get better results if you make her chase you.

[ QUOTE ]
you haven't really tricked them into thinking that your some Awesome Superhero who hates p***y but you have got them thinking about you as an equal, someone they have to respect.

[/ QUOTE ]

When it comes to girls with low self-esteem, my whole point was that they will fill in the blanks of who you are in their eyes with Prince Charming. That could mean she thinks you are a some sort of saint that needs to be corrupted or that you are a just a regular guy with better game than all the other internet posers. It's not your job to tell her who you are.

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with your strategy, but not your reasoning.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to clarify that that whole post was not about girls in general. Just about girls who who try to get internet guys to drool over them on an internet site. There are plenty of women out there who I'm not going to play games with and try to put them on the defensive. But these myspace girls are trying to use guys to validate them...I'm suggesting that if you are going to validate them, you might as well get laid in the process. Then both parties get what they want...in the short-term, anyways.

[ QUOTE ]
Wishing I was single

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, there's the disconnect. If you're happily in a relationship with a someone, no wonder you have such a rosy outlook toward women.

When you say "inside" they are almost automatically thinking about inside their vagina, but you didnt outright say it, so they usually wont. This should put you in the non-friends catagory initially, which is good.

[diebitter]

Kudos to the inventor, I talk mere echoes of the greatness, but any ambiguous phrase that could be taken sexually or not will do, I think.

'deep?'
'hot?'
'close?'

er, having said this, I can't think of that many...

EDIT: Bright is right, these are 'meh'. Proceed with inside, except 'hot?' if they are near you, and the weather is hot (not likely this time of year for most of us).

I dont like those ones, they seem to upfront - not tricky and elaborate enough.