QQ couldn't lay it down

[Mvcode3]

Sorry I couldn't get the hand converter to work. Party 22's early no real reads on the villian. Should I have folded here? The limp reraise looks pretty fishy.



***** Hand History for Game 3196137746 *****
15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 18254097) - Tue Dec 13 20:01:44 EST 2005
Table Table 67351 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: elkboy67 (800)
Seat 2: KDLEWIS (785)
Seat 3: Strategeo (840)
Seat 4: NoShow823 (800)
Seat 5: rocket44222 (800)
Seat 6: gadropout999 (680)
Seat 7: Reza_ (925)
Seat 8: CrazyCheese (755)
Seat 9: darren67 (830)
Seat 10: Joe_Dirt001 (785)
Joe_Dirt001 posts small blind (10)
elkboy67 posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Strategeo [ Qc, Qh ]
KDLEWIS calls (15)
Strategeo raises (100) to 100
NoShow823 folds.
rocket44222 folds.
gadropout999 folds.
Reza_ folds.
CrazyCheese folds.
darren67 folds.
Joe_Dirt001 folds.
elkboy67 folds.
KDLEWIS raises (285) to 300
Strategeo calls (200)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 8c, 4c, 8h ]
KDLEWIS bets (300)

Strategeo???

[bigt439]

This flop hasn't change anything. You made your decision pf IMO for a flop like this. Pooooooosh.

[Mvcode3]

I felt that I could fold to an overcard if it hit on the flop. T540 early in a tourny is still enough to have a shot at the $. Would you fold/call/raise/push preflop then?

[liucipher]

I personally woulda just pushed this preflop.

I definitely push the flop.

I don't think giving people credit for KK+ at any point in the game is really +EV...

[lastchance]

Push preflop, Push flop, and be very, very happy.

[Mvcode3]

I think the limp re-raise is a DEAD giveaway that he has a monster. If he limps AK i feel he just calls and sees the flop. This hand just gave me the feeling that I was walking into a trap.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
I felt that I could fold to an overcard if it hit on the flop. T540 early in a tourny is still enough to have a shot at the $. Would you fold/call/raise/push preflop then?

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, pf I think either is alright. Toss up between protecting / ensuring you don't fold the best hand on flop and extracting value from an underpair... I think I push pf, but I wouldn't think someone was a donkey for flat calling.

How many people limp-reraise 3/8ths of their stack with JJ or AK, and then lead for such a tantalyzingly-small amount on a blank, low flop after the initial raiser called their huge reraise preflop? Almost none. If he had limp-reraised allin preflop, I think you should call, expecting a middle pocket pair most of the time. Without reads, as played, I think this is AA or KK trying to suck you in 8 or 9/10 times, meaning you don't have odds to call the flop bet. Vomit, and fold those ladies.

This is a tough one preflop. A limp/re-raise is a pretty sophisticated play for a complete donk. That's not to say you won't find 77 here often enough to make pushing +EV. I'm interested to see what people would do. At the 22's is it going to cost you to give an opponent that much credit? I personally don't hate the cold call. Once you see that flop it's an autopush.

Is this kind of limp reraise really scary enough that you'd consider not pushing, and then consider folding to a flop with an overcard? Sure, it could be AA/KK/AK, but it could be a whole mess of other hands, all of which you crush, and want to be getting it all in preflop vs.

I'm new to SNGs too, but this seems like a situation that's begging you to push preflop after his reraise. Don't give him credit for having AA/KK here. As you played it, you gotta shove that flop.

edit: Perhaps a limp/reraise is enough of a tell to talk you into folding this? Some seem to think so. People also seem to give credence to the UTG minraise, and I've seen horrible cards shown down when someone minraises from UTG...

[Mvcode3]

[ QUOTE ]
A limp/re-raise is a pretty sophisticated play for a complete donk.

[/ QUOTE ]

The limp re-raise is a classic donk move with the overpair. That set of all sorts of alarms in my head. Utg call with AA-QQ hope it gets raised then trap re-raise.

[liucipher]

I think the only problem is that they'll do this w/ TT and JJ too. Hell, AJo will do this. The problem w/ donks is that everything is a monster to them.

Don't lay it down. Look at what anyone with 1000+ posts here said. If they've got AA/KK/A8, then so be it, but this is a pretty flop for you.

Will

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A limp/re-raise is a pretty sophisticated play for a complete donk.

[/ QUOTE ]

The limp re-raise is a classic donk move with the overpair. That set of all sorts of alarms in my head. Utg call with AA-QQ hope it gets raised then trap re-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, sorry. I'm studying for an exam right now and not paying much attention. I thought he was BB. With the limp reraise this becomes a very good question. My point about making your decision pf still stands though. I don't know what a limp reraise at the 22's means because I've never played them, but I think at the 109's I'd muck pf... which doesn't really help this situation at all. Need a good 22er to tell you what's up. I lean towards pushing though.

[Mvcode3]

I ended up siding with you guys and pushing on the flop since no overs came. although my read ended up being correct, it is still a very hard laydown--i was actually hoping overs came on the flop so i could fold.

Ill post the rest of the hand

** Dealing Flop ** : [ 8c, 4c, 8h ]
KDLEWIS bets (300)
Strategeo raises (540) to 540
Strategeo is all-In.
KDLEWIS calls (185)
KDLEWIS is all-In.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5d ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 4s ]
Creating Main Pot with $1595 with KDLEWIS
Creating Side Pot 1 with $55 with Strategeo
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1595 | Side Pot 1: 55
Board: [ 8c 4c 8h 5d 4s ]
elkboy67 balance 785, lost 15 (folded)
KDLEWIS balance 1595, bet 785, collected 1595, net +810 [ As Ah ] [ two pairs, aces and eights -- As,Ah,8c,8h,5d ]
Strategeo balance 55, bet 840, collected 55, lost -785 [ Qc Qh ] [ two pairs, queens and eights -- Qc,Qh,8c,8h,5d ]
NoShow823 balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
rocket44222 balance 800, didn't bet (folded)
gadropout999 balance 680, didn't bet (folded)
Reza_ balance 925, didn't bet (folded)
CrazyCheese balance 755, didn't bet (folded)
darren67 balance 830, didn't bet (folded)
Joe_Dirt001 balance 775, lost 10 (folded)