Curtains Hand - A6o on bubble

[fluorescenthippo]

Villian was being a typical semi bully on the bubble. I don't like a push here because even if the villian is raising a huge range, a call by him is usually still -EV. Unless there is a big chance he will fold to my push I fold here.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1625)
Button (t4425)
SB (t2905)
Curtainz (t1045)

Preflop: Curtainz is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Curtainz is all-in [t1045], Button calls t745.

[RobGW]

He is the short stack and can't afford to wait for a premium hand. Against a bully's range A6 is good enough for me.

[curtains]

Is it possible to give the handle of the bully to refresh my memory...

[fluorescenthippo]

frankieg119

[fluorescenthippo]

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He is the short stack and can't afford to wait for a premium hand. Against a bully's range A6 is good enough for me.

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if his range is any two cards and you know he will call its .5 +EV. A6 is certainly not good enough against his range if he is calling

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
Villian was being a typical semi bully on the bubble. I don't like a push here because even if the villian is raising a huge range, a call by him is usually still -EV. Unless there is a big chance he will fold to my push I fold here.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1625)
Button (t4425)
SB (t2905)
Curtainz (t1045)

Preflop: Curtainz is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Curtainz is all-in [t1045], Button calls t745.

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Don't like it when I can fold and still have 6BB. This hand is dominated way too often.

I think I have virtually zero fold equity on the push.

[RobGW]

I see your point. But ICM is not the end all be all of SNG's. That may be blasmphemy to some but oh well. There could be a lot of variables that would change this. I mean if the bully is going to continue to min raise we'll have to take a stand at some point and I'd rather do it now than later. Usually I see a min raise as "I'll fold to a push by the SB but not to the BB" Following that logic, he'll have a decent but not great hand. Well, Curtains has a decent but not great hand too. I think its marginal either way but for some reason I can't see myself folding and leaving myself with 850. Being at the table though I could find a fold or a push depending on the table dynamics.

[Shillx]

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He is the short stack and can't afford to wait for a premium hand. Against a bully's range A6 is good enough for me.

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if his range is any two cards and you know he will call its .5 +EV. A6 is certainly not good enough against his range if he is calling

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This post doesn't make any sense. The ideal situation would be to have the big stack fold a lot of hands here. We pick up 525 chips with no risk to the stack. Even if he always calls us as a 3:2 underdog, our EV compared to folding is +T400. It is better to see him fold a ton here and be a big dog when he calls compared to seeing him call a lot as a nice favorite.

Any smart villian is playing close to 90% of their hands in this spot. We would call him with A6o if he was playing well, so we should certainly push over the top since we might get some FE to boot. Of course if he isn't playing well and is folding a lot then we should just fold and pick a better spot.

[tigerite]

Can we not stop and go here..? It'll be 745 into the pot of 750 on the flop - surely hard for villain to call with air. I dunno, just seems like a better line.

[fluorescenthippo]

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Can we not stop and go here..? It'll be 745 into the pot of 750 on the flop - surely hard for villain to call with air. I dunno, just seems like a better line.

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i like that line

[curtains]

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He is the short stack and can't afford to wait for a premium hand. Against a bully's range A6 is good enough for me.

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if his range is any two cards and you know he will call its .5 +EV. A6 is certainly not good enough against his range if he is calling

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This post doesn't make any sense. The ideal situation would be to have the big stack fold a lot of hands here. We pick up 525 chips with no risk to the stack. Even if he always calls us as a 3:2 underdog, our EV compared to folding is +T400. It is better to see him fold a ton here and be a big dog when he calls compared to seeing him call a lot as a nice favorite.

Any smart villian is playing close to 90% of their hands in this spot. We would call him with A6o if he was playing well, so we should certainly push over the top since we might get some FE to boot. Of course if he isn't playing well and is folding a lot then we should just fold and pick a better spot.

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I wish I was smart, I would never dream of playing 90% of my hands in the villian's shoes, especially with a desperate shortstack in the BB. You don't want to attack the shortest stack when they are the BB, as they are most likely to fight back. This is precisely the time to not play such a large % of hansd.

[tigerite]

So in that case curtains.. why did you push.. lol?

[curtains]

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So in that case curtains.. why did you push.. lol?

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Just because I made a play doesn't mean it was the correct one. I still want to know who the villian was.

Oops I just notice its posted above...I don't recognize the name. I'm sure I pushed because I felt I had some folding equity, which is the key. If I have no equity, pushing is almost surely incorrect. A stop and go is a reasonable option as is folding. I suspect that folding is correct.

In any case Im sure that at the time I felt as though I had some fold equity, although this was probably a poor judgement on my part. Im sure I have some, but probably not enough.

[tigerite]

Yeah, I think you have a little FE here, but not much. I'd estimate he folds maybe his bottom 20% or something like that if his raising range is sufficiently big enough.

[Shillx]

You will have 6 big blinds if you fold here. This isn't exactly desperation mode. If he shoves everytime and you call 20% of the time, it is nice spot for him to be in. He picks up T225 80% of the time and loses say T330 (as a 2:1 dog) when you call. The EV of pushing it in is ~ +T110. Slightly less since the SB will sometimes have a hand. This is the perfect time for him to move in every hand.

[ilya]

At first glance I don't like this play at all. It seems almost certainly -$EV as it's real easy for Villain to call &amp; even if Villain raises &amp; calls with literally any 2, the play is only slightly profitable.

But if every single hand is getting raised ahead of Hero's rapidly-shrinking stack, I can see making this play as a lesser-of-two-evils compromise.

[Custer]

"But if every single hand is getting raised ahead of Hero's rapidly-shrinking stack, I can see making this play as a lesser-of-two-evils compromise."

I disagree with this. You can always raise UTG. Meanwhile, if lots of hands are getting raised, someone else might call. And if someone raises and someone calls and neither of those someones are you, you gain tournament EV.

So, unless you are sure that villain is raising any 2, or that he will fold too often to your reraise, I'd rather foldt his hand and just raise when its folded to you.

moses

[ilya]

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"But if every single hand is getting raised ahead of Hero's rapidly-shrinking stack, I can see making this play as a lesser-of-two-evils compromise."

I disagree with this. You can always raise UTG. Meanwhile, if lots of hands are getting raised, someone else might call. And if someone raises and someone calls and neither of those someones are you, you gain tournament EV.

So, unless you are sure that villain is raising any 2, or that he will fold too often to your reraise, I'd rather foldt his hand and just raise when its folded to you.

moses

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But what about the fact that when you're UTG, it's the huge stack who's in the BB?

Also, it's true that someone else may call one of the next few raises, but doesn't it become less &amp; less likely as your stack shrinks &amp; the medium stacks become more &amp; more committed to waiting you out? also, it's not enough for someone to just call a preflop raise...someone actually has to bust, and it seems that with you this short your opponents are gonna be careful postflop as well as preflop.

i'm definitely playing the devil's advocate as i've almost never made this push, but these points came to mind so i thought i'd throw them out there.

[curtains]

The devil is dead man, I already said I don't like my play.

I love the stop-n-go here.

[curtains]

Stop+Go is likely better than pushing.

[ilya]

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The devil is dead man, I already said I don't like my play.

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well sure, but that doesn't mean I don't like it either.

although i don't think i do.

p.s. anyway, i was harassing Custer more than anyone else.

[curtains]

Yeah, I was just messin around.