AA in the BB - Did I Misplay?

[ECondreras]

First off, I hate getting AA or KK in the blinds. I had just sat down at the table (Party .50/$1) and waited about 4 hands for the BB. I am dealt A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

UTG and UTG+1 fold, call, call, button limps, SB completes and I raise (I raise AA 99% of the time, no matter where I am dealt it). All call. 5 to see the flop.

T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/club.gif 2 /forums/images/icons/club.gif

SB bets out (which I find rare in low limit Party - normally checked to pre-flop raiser). I raise. 3 cold call and the SB reraises. We all call. Should I have reraised? He bet into me and then reraised me. I am thinking he flopped 2 pair for sure and everyone else is either on a flush draw or a straight draw. No matter what, with this many people I am not feeling very olympic.

Turn: 4 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

Doesn't help the draws, but I am still thinking that I am behind to 2 pair. SB bets out again and this time I just call. Should I have raised to try and drop the others? Everyone else calls.

River: 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

No flush, but there are straight draws. I still feel that I am looking at a flopped 2 pair from the SB. SB bets, I make a crying call, and everyone else folds (busted draws for sure).

SB shows 8 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif T /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif for a pair of tens. I should have been raising the hell out of this guy, but the strength he showed kept me at bay (hey, at least I didn't fold, but I expected to be beat). How would you guys have played this hand?

[asdf1234]

It really depends on the player. I've seen people take it four bets on the flop and turn with top pair worst possible kicker. And I've also somebody cap every street including preflop with 42o and catch a runner runner wheel.

Against average, logical opponents, yes, you're probably behind to two pair, but you have to keep in mind, most Party microlimit players just press buttons randomly and their actions have very little meaning. But seriously, next time you need to cap the flop against this guy and pop him again on the turn if he comes out swinging.

If you don't know the player, then going into check call mode isn't a bad move in my opinion, but I'm not sure that you can muck it unless you've got a very solid read. Against an unknown I'd probably at least cap the flop.

Also, I wouldn't be so fast to put everybody else on good draws. A single overcard or even undercards are distinct possibilities on Party .50/1.00. (Only half kidding.)

[JohnShaft]

As many SB bets I see online mean Flush (and less often straight draw) and he gets 3 callers after you raise, he can still reraise for value. So you can't really put him on two pair at all. Either cap the flop. Or (if you think he might bet the turn) raise him then when a blank hits.

You really have to make a little more of a play for a decent sized pot than one raise on the cheap street when you have nut pocket pair...

His play is bad though considering he only flopped top pair Tens with a crappy 9 kicker. If he makes the move with the flush draw his play at least makes sense.

[Dynasty]

First off, I hate getting AA or KK in the blinds

I hope you recognize that you've got lots to learn.

The lesson you should have learned from this hand was that you shouldn't get scared simply because somebody raises you once. Raise the turn. AA will be good on the turn a majority of the time.

I am thinking he flopped 2 pair for sure and everyone else is either on a flush draw or a straight draw

This is another great example of new studious players not really understanding how to read hands. ECondreras put his opponents all on hands that either had him beat or were drawing extremely live against him (8 or 9 out hands). This is just a "monsters under the bed" philosophy.

Why didn't anybody have top pair? Why didn't anybody have bottom pair? Why didn't anybody have a backdoor flush draw with Ahxh? Why didn't anybody have just the Ac?

[AceHigh]

"I hate getting AA or KK in the blinds"

These hands are money, anywhere, anytime.

"I raise. 3 cold call and the SB reraises. We all call. Should I have reraised? "

Yes, because those cold callers don't want you too, that's why. Basically either you or the SB are way ahead of these guys and you want them to pay to catch up. With all the callers behind you the SB could still be pushing a draw on the flop or top pair and a flush draw.

"Should I have raised to try and drop the others?"

Only if you think there is a decent chance you still have the best hand. Against an unknown SB, the most logical hands for the SB are T9 or a set and Ac might not be an out for you.

"How would you guys have played this hand?"

Against an unknown player, I think you have to give him credit for a big hand at some point and go into calling mode.

[ECondreras]

Believe me, I KNOW I have lots to learn. That's why I am here. As for my AA/KK in the blinds, I should have said that the blinds are my least favorite places to be dealt those hands - because I have a hard time playing them in that position.

Now here is where I get confused. I have played roughly 7,000 hands since late May on Party's .50/$1 tables. This was the first time that I can remember when I raised pre-flop and was then bet into and re-raised by someone that didn't get clobbered by the flop. This is not the tight aggressive game that you must play in - this is Party Microlimit where I have seen the flop, turn, and river all checked through! 99.9% of the time at this limit on Party, I will be behind to someone who bets like that.

I am the first to admit that I am LOUSY when it comes to reading hands, but not to beat a dead horse, unless the player is a complete maniac, at this limit the player will have flopped more than a draw or a pair.

However, I do appreciate your comments and I will try to keep them in mind when this situation occurs. Please do not think I am an ingrate!

[ECondreras]

These hands are money, anywhere, anytime.

I know - my comment sounded bad. I just have an easier time playing AA and KK in other positions.

I gave the SB credit for a big hand way too soon. That much I have come to realize.

[JohnShaft]

Don't worry about it EC.
People give advice on these boards according to correct poker theory, and often the type of games they play in, as they should. What's right for the games you play in *can* be different. They key atm for you is knowing what's right in *your* games.
And don't beat yourself up because you didn't play this hand optimally. It is absolutely impossible to play every hand optimally in any length of time.
The key is adapting to the games you are in, which you have obviously done.

And don't worry about reading hands either. The worse players are the less predictable they are. When they can have *anything* it's very, very hard to put someone on a hand. As you move up you'll start to see more 'sense' in other people's holdings and play.
You sound like you have the right attitude starting out, to me.

[Dynasty]

The Big Blind is a great place to be dealt AA. You get the maximum # of limpers ahead of you before you get to raise. Of course, the poor post-flop position always makes any hand more difficult to play.

I have played roughly 7,000 hands since late May on Party's .50/$1 tables. This was the first time that I can remember when I raised pre-flop and was then bet into and re-raised by someone that didn't get clobbered by the flop.

I've never played this game so I can't comment on it's typical players. But, here's something valuable you can take from this hand.

Sometimes you have to raise with the second best hand to increase your chances of winning the pot.

Let's say the Small Blind has exactly T9 for top two pair. There are 8 cards in the deck which can come on the river to give you a winning hand (three 2's, three 4's, and 2 Aces). It's very important for you to raise the turn and force any opponent who is holding a 2 or 4 to fold. If somebody stuck around with Kh2h (bottom pair, overcard, backdoor flush draw), you desperately need them to fold on the turn. If they don't, you only have 5 outs (three 4's and two Aces). If that turn raise drives them out, you buy yourself an extra two outs on the river (only two 2's left in deck with this new info).

Buying extra outs when you are behind combined with (1) the very good possibility that AA is good on the turn and (2) charging strong draws (flushes and straights) who won't fold two big bets makes raising the best play.