Late in tourney.....late position

You are late in a 500K guaranteed tourney. $200 buy in, you won the entry in a $9 satellite (you never buy in direct to a tournament for more than $50)

There are 430 people left, top 400 pay out at least $280, top 220 is $330 ($50 more)

You have 8,000 chips, average is about 12,000. blinds are 200/400

You are in the dealer position and are dealt 9 9.

table folds and you raise to 1,000.

Small blind, who has been slightly agressive raises to 5,000. You call. Big blind folds. Flop is 8h 7s 3s.

You check, SB (raiser) pushes you all in.


Whats your move?

(Note: it might be tempted to criticize the 5,000 call in the first place. If you are tempted, go for it)

[jcm4ccc]

OK, I'll criticize the 5,000 chip call.

There are NO cards you can have which make sense to call this kind of raise. You have no folding equity. You are second to act on the flop. If you have a good hand, push (so that you can get an extra 3000 chips off the villian). If you have a bad hand, fold. In this case, this is a clear push.

It would be good to know how many chips SB has, though it really has no influence on your play in this particular situation. If he has a lot, he may have sensed your desire to slip into the money and is putting you to the test. You weren't talking at the table, were you? The others at the table didn't know that you won the entry in a satellite, did they?

On the flop, it is an easy call. You would call almost anything on the flop, since you have called off most of your chips preflop.

[FUpaymee]

Calling the 5000 raise is absurd. With your stack it's either push or fold. What did you think he was going to do after the flop?

And after calling the 5000, you had no choice but to put the rest of your chips in on the flop.

[FreakDaddy]

Considering your read and the situation, you need to push here. He's classically putting you to the test, making you commit half your chips. It would be helpful to know his stacksize, but I'm assuming he is leaving himself an out. This is push/fold. Just push and hope he doesn't have an overpair.

I agree completely. This wasn't me in the tourney, it was a friend who played it and we have been arguing about it ever since.

My argument is that he should never have called the raise in the first place, considering that he was so close to a payoff and even winning the hand he would still have to move up another 200 spots for another $50. Following that same logic, I argue that after the screwup call, the fold is the best thing to do here. You have a 95% chance of a payoff even if you dont play a hand even with the fold, and if you win, the odds are against you making much more than that low level of payoff.


It turned out that he folded it and feels strongly that this was a mistake and should have called it.

Turns out that the villian here had 22 and bragged about it after the fold.

He ended up finshing with a decent payoff.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
My argument is that he should never have called the raise in the first place, considering that he was so close to a payoff and even winning the hand he would still have to move up another 200 spots for another $50. Following that same logic, I argue that after the screwup call, the fold is the best thing to do here.

[/ QUOTE ] The call preflop of 5000 chips, as silly as it was, should have been inconsequential.

He needed to play this hand for all his chips. Anything else was a mistake. I think you are wrong to suggest that he should have gotten out of this hand.

Look purely at the expected amount of money to win with and without the fold.

Folded, gotta expect around $300
Call you expect $200...if that

[yvesaint]

how the f can you call that preflop raise and then fold to a flop bet

tell your friend hes an idiot

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
Look purely at the expected amount of money to win with and without the fold.

Folded, gotta expect around $300
Call you expect $200...if that

[/ QUOTE ] This doesn't even make sense. And wasn't your friend ahead, assuming the villian really had 22?

Your friend was playing scared. The low money meant too much to him.

[Matador225]

[ QUOTE ]
Look purely at the expected amount of money to win with and without the fold.

Folded, gotta expect around $300
Call you expect $200...if that

[/ QUOTE ]

If you call you are almost always a favorite in this situation. If you are a favorite most times you gain chips. If you gain chips your expected value goes up. Jesus christ.

BTW if you or your friend is playing scared don't raise in the first place. Just fold and you won't get yourself into this situation.