$11 QQ Does anyone call preflop with villain making this move? [Archive]

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ddg333

12-13-2005, 12:56 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t800)
Button (t800)
SB (t800)
BB (t800)
Hero (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Hero raises to t60, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls t60, 6 folds, BB calls [t800] t15, Hero folds, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: t142.50

I had an ugly gut feeling about this one. Just started playing the Party sitngos.. this was maybe my 100th. Still learning the ropes, only at 5% ROI. This is my first post to the STT forum but I've been lurking a little while. Anyway.. figured folding the small pot would be better than praying the opponent was really dumb. It's never fun to go out on the first hand.

It could be that they had a lower pocket pair but I don't see most people making this move with less than AA/KK/AK and maybe QQ which of course is unlikely given my hand. I have called similar bets in the past and been screwed on them with the very same hand. The problem is there are many people playing this level that would push 10s or Js to feel the rush. Anyway.. love to know what the regulars think. Thanks. Also.. if you would fold this where is the line drawn for it to be an easy call later on (like say at the 25/50 level 7 or 8 handed)?

Also enclosed is some comic relief which helped convince me of the beatability of these games... didn't set out to make a bad beat post but I think it's hilarious in hindsight:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com (http://www.internettexasholdem.com)

BB (t770)
UTG (t985)
UTG+1 (t645)
MP1 (t2000)
MP2 (t720)
CO (t730)
Hero (t755)
SB (t1395)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif.
5 folds, Hero raises to t60, SB calls t45, BB calls t30.

Flop: (t180) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets t75, BB calls t75, Hero raises to t200, SB calls [t1275] t75, BB folds, Hero calls [t495] t200.

Turn: (t530) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)

River: (t530) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: t530

Results in white below: 
Hero has 3s 3c (full house, threes full of eights).
SB has 8d Jh (full house, eights full of jacks).
Outcome: SB wins t530.

11t

12-13-2005, 01:02 PM

Eh, I would never fold QQ preflop in an $11 without a read. I mean you are a 57/43 favorite in a race and you dominate JJ.

Winwood

12-13-2005, 01:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Eh, I would never fold QQ preflop in an $11 without a read

[/ QUOTE ]

To hell with the read - this guy could be 0/0/0 and I call QQ in an 11. Its the best hand way too much of the time

downtown

12-13-2005, 01:07 PM

Hand 1) Call at an 11, your opponents are doing this with a really wide range here. I would probably fold JJ at an 11, and call with QQ.

Hand 2) "beatability" is not a word, though it does sound kind of cool.

tewall

12-13-2005, 01:12 PM

This is a little hard to follow because you have "call" in places which must be "raise", by the context. So I'm guessin on hand one BB went all-in, and you want to know if you should call? The answer is yes. People will go in with all sorts of trash, so your QQ will do much better than you might expect.

On the second hand I can't figure out what's happening. You have "hero raises to t200" which gets called by SB, and then called again by Hero, which is impossible. Maybe SB went over the top, and you're wondering if Hero should call? If so, that's an easy yes. A lot of players will raise with just a heart draw here. Once in a blue moon someone will have a higher set, but you can't worry about that.

ddg333

12-13-2005, 01:19 PM

Thanks for the advice everyone... I thought it was a little weak in hindsight. Perhaps I'm just scared of monsters under the bed. Next time I'm in that spot I'll cross my fingers and call.

Not sure what happened with the hand converter. Hand 2 I minraised preflop just because I was in a donkish mood and could bet out again on most flops with one caller to take down the modest pot. The small blind pushed over top of my raise to 200 and then I called the push. Anyone know how to fix the hand history to not show call in place of raise (or why it behaves that way at all)? Thanks.

tewall

12-13-2005, 01:26 PM

Read through these posts, and you'll get an idea of the junk people play. You'll be surprised how weak the hands are people will call with, and how weak your hand needs to be to push it. Given where you are starting from, it's almost impossible for you to be too aggressive. That is, if you are in any doubt as to what to do with a hand, make the aggressive choice. It will take you awhile to get used to. If you play a conservative, wait for the nuts type game, you'll get killed by the structure of the tournament.

Tight/aggressive early, loose/aggresive late. Make your opponent show you a better hand when you have a reasonable hand (like TPTK). The strategy is *much* different than a ring game, which puts more of a premium on caution and patience.

ddg333

12-13-2005, 01:50 PM

Alright... just now I saw an A9o vs 10/10 allin preflop similar situation on the first hand of a 10+1. Shame on me.

sofere

12-13-2005, 01:58 PM

Villain's hand range here in the 11s:
AA-22, Ax, Kx, Q2o, J5+, 56+, any two soooted cards, gapped connectors down to 2-4.

Who wants to plug this into SNGPT and see whether this is +ev?

Koss

12-13-2005, 02:06 PM

I thought I had a tough decision last night when I had AQ in that spot.

12-13-2005, 02:31 PM

I likely fold. I've seen some strange things in the first hand of SNGs (not just at the $11s), but I've come around to think that I'll be able to find spots that I'm more sure about.

One thing to give a lot of consideration to is the chips you might lose are more valuable than the chips you might win; doubling up does not double your equity, busting takes away all your equity. Would you pay twice as much to start with twice as many chips as everyone else?