6-7 suited in MP

[MagicRat]

Table not overly loose but has been very passive.

I have won the last 3 hands at this table, showing down 2 strong ones so I think my image at the table (if anyone is paying attention /images/graemlins/smile.gif) is tight.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG Calls, UTG+1 Calls, 1 fold , Hero Calls, MP2 Calls, MP3 Calls, CO Calls, 1 fold, SB Calls, BB Checks.

<font color="blue"> Think this is fairly straightforward call. 2 in already plus both blinds and I'm not too concerned about being raised given what I've seen of the table so far. </font>

Flop: (8 SB) 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (8 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls,

<font color="blue"> Obviously with OESD, albeit ignorant end, and BDFD I'm staying in but no reason to raise here, is there?? </font>

MP2 calls, <font color="red">MP3 raises </font>, CO calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero ???

<font color="blue"> Now do I pump my draw or still just simply call??? </font>

[kiddj]

Pump it. Hopefully your BDFD is good, which makes it even better. Also, with so much action you should have a good grasp on what hands you're up against. If turn doesn't help you (or pairs the board), you can probably still call down with odds to a monster pot.

I would just call here. You don't want to run into MP3 with a very strong hand and cap it shutting out the CO, BB, UTG, and UTG+1. If you are absolutely convinced it will not get capped, you absolutely should 3-bet it, but I think a call is fine here.

Please note that this would be totally different if you had JTh, where you would be raising and reraising with overcards to go along with your OESD and backdoor flush draw. 8 cards give you the nuts instead of just the 4 outs. You could still hit a 10 and run into QJ.

Besides, if you hit a 5 or a 10 on the turn, you can check raise MP3 and trap all those players in between for a big bet.

[hobbsmann]

3 [censored] bets! Most of these jokers are not going to fold for two more bets after already commiting one to this pot.

[Bill Smith]

4 people just CC'ed 2 bets and you're worried they won't call 2 more IF MP3 raises? I'm pumping this.

[hobbsmann]

I'm not worried, it was in response to the guy above me who doesn't like the idea of the pump.

I wasn't saying I don't like the idea of the pump. Maybe I read this too fast without realizing that they cold called 2 bets and were not just in there for 1. Obviously, capping it with 6+ people in will be ideal, since your pot equity is about 30% or so. My only point was that your EV could go down if MP3 caps and it causes a few folds. But I agree looking into this more...pumping it up is the way to go.

[MagicRat]

Flop: (8 SB) 8 , 9 , 2 (8 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls,

Obviously with OESD, albeit ignorant end, and BDFD I'm staying in but no reason to raise here, is there??

MP2 calls, <font color="red">MP3 raises </font>, CO calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="red">Hero raises that MoFo as fast as he can click the Raise button! /images/graemlins/smile.gif </font>, MP2 folds <font color="brown"> one bites the dust... /images/graemlins/frown.gif </font>, <font color="red">MP3 raises </font> <font color="brown"> uh-oh, they're gonna fall like dominoes now... /images/graemlins/frown.gif </font>, NOT!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif CO calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (29.5 SB) 10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)

<font color="blue"> Par-tay!! With MP3 capping the flop I'm going check-raise this bad-boy and make some $$!!! </font>

BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks (!! /images/graemlins/frown.gif), CO checks.

<font color="blue"> I HATE MYSELF!!! Textbook example of FPS back-firing?? Although not the absolute nuts, with the pot so freakin' huge I should have just bet this out, huh?? Let me have it... </font>

[Fat Nicky]

Am I the only one that doesn't like pumping the idiot end of the straight draw here?? With 8 other limping hands out there, hands like JT, QJ, QT are pretty likely, and it sucks pumping a draw, hitting it, and losing the hand. Is the backdoor flush draw what makes the difference here???

[avisco01]

Perhaps, but its reasonable to assume that MP3 would bet, so your thinking was sound here, and seeing that MP3 checked as well, its easy for an outside observer to criticize you, and also easy for you to beat yourself up based on results-based thinking. Obviously, the pot is so huge already that its difficult to make a case for not just betting out of course. I would have bet out myself for whatever its worth. Maybe you just got a little greedy, which is something I'm sure we're all guilty of from time to time!

[oxymoron]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that doesn't like pumping the idiot end of the straight draw here?? With 8 other limping hands out there, hands like JT, QJ, QT are pretty likely, and it sucks pumping a draw, hitting it, and losing the hand. Is the backdoor flush draw what makes the difference here???

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll be honest that I didn't like it as much on the flop but my reasoning is I prefer to see the turn and pump it there. Perhaps a leak of mine. I'm with the OP if I had the JT it would be easier for me to pump the flop.

[avisco01]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that doesn't like pumping the idiot end of the straight draw here?? With 8 other limping hands out there, hands like JT, QJ, QT are pretty likely, and it sucks pumping a draw, hitting it, and losing the hand. Is the backdoor flush draw what makes the difference here???

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, I'd try to make my hand for as few bets as possible given the reasons already stated.

[Fat Nicky]

Exactly...it would certainly suck to pump this flop, and then a J or Q falls on the turn...We just pumped the flop just to see 4 of our outs become very dirty.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that doesn't like pumping the idiot end of the straight draw here?? With 8 other limping hands out there, hands like JT, QJ, QT are pretty likely, and it sucks pumping a draw, hitting it, and losing the hand. Is the backdoor flush draw what makes the difference here???

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the number of loose, passive players in the pot is what makes the big difference. Even with the ass end of the OESD, we must have at least 20% equity here? Plus, we'd like to build the pot past that critical mass where everyone calls down your aggression (if you hit, obviously) on pot size alone.

[gopnik]

not sure if I'd raise the first bet, I am definitely reraising the second one for value.

[gopnik]

I'd bet it, c/r is a dangerous game here and these calling stations will call you anyway.
BET.

[MagicRat]

River: (14.75 BB) K /images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)

BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

<font color="blue">A rather uneventful ending to all the flop madness... </font>

RESULTS (problems with the converter so tried to hide it best I could):

<font color="white">Hero shows 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif for straight, six to ten.
MP3 shows 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif, 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif for two pairs, nines and eights
CO shows 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif for a pair of twos
UTG shows Q /images/graemlins/club.gif, 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif for a pair of nines

Hero wins 18.75 BB with a straight, six to ten.

Uh, CO &amp; UTG were rather interesting players in that hand. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font>

I think that raising either should protect your hand by cutting out better hands or it should build a bigger pot. This pot is already so big that the pot odds for gutshots are okay. So everybody will stay in. For me there is no reason to raise.

[KN0CKAH0MA]

3-BET!!